Creative Accounting

J

John Barton

New member
All right I am gonna get barbequed but here goes.

First - I LOVE what the guys at the Action Report are putting together and I am going to pay to see it even if I can't.

But here is my problem with it; It is billed as $20,000 event when in fact it is a match for $10,000. It has been mentioned that it is the first long race for big money since Reyes/Strickland went to 120 for $100,000.

Just a month or so ago Dennis Orcullo and Yang played a race to 60 for $10,000 - or creatively, a two man tournament with $10,000 entry and $20,000 winner take all.

In the past few days - David G and Chris B played a 10? ahead two man tournament for $20,000 winner take all.

And Chris B. is scheduled to play today another 2 man $20,000 winner take all session in Kentucky.

In Derby City sessions regularly take on these proportions.

Don't get me wrong - this is going to be an epic matchup and I like the format and I love the boxing aspect of it. But please let's not make it out to be like it's a huge amount of money on the line when people with far less talent than Corey and Shane are regularly betting as much or more.

I probably am not wrong when I say that they are getting staked and if so then they are probably only going to get half of the money won or $5000 for two days of play. Still a good payday but not as much as I would think that they should be playing for. When I consider that Mike Massey gets about $1500 plus expenses for a day's work (and that was prices 15 years ago) I have to say that Corey and Shane are underpaid when I compare Mike's work to theirs, especially since one of them is going to go home with no pay and his is guaranteed.

Just my thoughts while I am in a critical mood :-(

Now for the part I would like to see - I would LOVE for someone to step up and post up to challenge the Winner in the same format. Let's get it going guys - put your horses in the gates!!!!

Anyway, I am looking forward to a great fight between two jam up players.

John
 
corvette1340 said:
You are right. It is also a "loser must leave town" match.
Click to expand...
Are you implying that Corey is going to lose? LOL
I think it is a coin flip personally.
 
John Barton said:
All right I am gonna get barbequed but here goes.

First - I LOVE what the guys at the Action Report are putting together and I am going to pay to see it even if I can't.

But here is my problem with it; It is billed as $20,000 event when in fact it is a match for $10,000. It has been mentioned that it is the first long race for big money since Reyes/Strickland went to 120 for $100,000.

Just a month or so ago Dennis Orcullo and Yang played a race to 60 for $10,000 - or creatively, a two man tournament with $10,000 entry and $20,000 winner take all.

In the past few days - David G and Chris B played a 10? ahead two man tournament for $20,000 winner take all.

And Chris B. is scheduled to play today another 2 man $20,000 winner take all session in Kentucky.

In Derby City sessions regularly take on these proportions.

Don't get me wrong - this is going to be an epic matchup and I like the format and I love the boxing aspect of it. But please let's not make it out to be like it's a huge amount of money on the line when people with far less talent than Corey and Shane are regularly betting as much or more.

I probably am not wrong when I say that they are getting staked and if so then they are probably only going to get half of the money won or $5000 for two days of play. Still a good payday but not as much as I would think that they should be playing for. When I consider that Mike Massey gets about $1500 plus expenses for a day's work (and that was prices 15 years ago) I have to say that Corey and Shane are underpaid when I compare Mike's work to theirs, especially since one of them is going to go home with no pay and his is guaranteed.

Just my thoughts while I am in a critical mood :-(

Now for the part I would like to see - I would LOVE for someone to step up and post up to challenge the Winner in the same format. Let's get it going guys - put your horses in the gates!!!!

Anyway, I am looking forward to a great fight between two jam up players.

John
Click to expand...

You're kinda raining on their parade it seems. The big thing about this matchup IMO, is that they are offering the chance to see, LIVE, two of the top players in the world play with decent money and pride on the line. Calling it a purse of $20000 instead of betting $10000 is just semantics or marketing the event. It doesn't matter to me if they are being staked. The big point is, you never see live pool, action or tournament, on ESPN or the channels I get. The Action Report are filling a need or demand that noone else is.
 
BVal said:
There is much more at stake than just money.

BVal
Click to expand...

Yes I know that. But the money is what is touted before the other things. The largest thing on the flyer is the number $20,000.

But the way I flushed my PM's before I answered yours. Could you email me at john@sterling-gaming.com to continue the discussion you started in PM?
 
BVal said:
Are you implying that Corey is going to lose? LOL
I think it is a coin flip personally.
Click to expand...


Although I think Shane is one of the best players in the world and certainly one of the hottest over the last few months, I have to go with Corey since I know him better.
 
corvette1340 said:
Although I think Shane is one of the best players in the world and certainly one of the hottest over the last few months, I have to go with Corey since I know him better.
Click to expand...
I actually did flip a coin and ended up putting my vCash on Corey to win. The two of them are my favorite players out there and the only choice was to flip a coin.

BVal
 
John Barton said:
Yes I know that. But the money is what is touted before the other things. The largest thing on the flyer is the number $20,000.

But the way I flushed my PM's before I answered yours. Could you email me at john@sterling-gaming.com to continue the discussion you started in PM?
Click to expand...
No problem - I was gonna ask again but I didn't want to bother you.

BVal
 
punter said:
You're kinda raining on their parade it seems. The big thing about this matchup IMO, is that they are offering the chance to see, LIVE, two of the top players in the world play with decent money and pride on the line. Calling it a purse of $20000 instead of betting $10000 is just semantics or marketing the event. It doesn't matter to me if they are being staked. The big point is, you never see live pool, action or tournament, on ESPN or the channels I get. The Action Report are filling a need or demand that noone else is.
Click to expand...

Yeah I guess I am a little bit. I think it's because I don't want it to be just about the money. I would love to see these guys stories get told and the path to this "battle" and so on.

I don't want it to be tainted by clever accounting and talking about how they are playing for big money and all.

But like I said - I am going to pay for a feed even if I can't watch it. I consider this to be the beginning of AWESOME Action Report events.

You're absolutely right - the need for live pool is being filled here. Let's all please not forget that the pioneer for live pool was BCN with the US Open and Derby City.

Kudos to the Action Report for being the PIONEER for live action matchups of this caliber.

We shouldn't forget that the Professor in Starkville provided us with a camera and commentary for his ring game and various matchups last year as well.

Can't wait!!!!
 
John Barton said:
Yeah I guess I am a little bit. I think it's because I don't want it to be just about the money. I would love to see these guys stories get told and the path to this "battle" and so on.

I don't want it to be tainted by clever accounting and talking about how they are playing for big money and all.

But like I said - I am going to pay for a feed even if I can't watch it. I consider this to be the beginning of AWESOME Action Report events.

You're absolutely right - the need for live pool is being filled here. Let's all please not forget that the pioneer for live pool was BCN with the US Open and Derby City.

Kudos to the Action Report for being the PIONEER for live action matchups of this caliber.

We shouldn't forget that the Professor in Starkville provided us with a camera and commentary for his ring game and various matchups last year as well.

Can't wait!!!!
Click to expand...

I really don't think the money is what matters the most, John. Seeing these 2 go at it is going to be something special - and the action report is bringing us something that is finally going to show pool for what it is - veil removed - what goes on when two of the best in the world match up. THANK YOU JUSTIN! I think this is the best thing to happen to the game in a long time, and hopefully it pays off with alot of exposure.

I think everybody should make a lot of noise about this match-up and post about it everywhere - pool halls, everywhere on the internet to include poker forums too. Its not a lot of money compared to other events, but the excitement is what will attract everybody. Lets showcase what it was that drew us to the game in the first place - that's what this is about, not the cash.
 
The Action Report is GREAT!!!!! I just hope they monitor the content on their site so they dont catch any heat for gambling, its legal to discuss gambiling and report on the outcome of events but if they imply they are the match maker of such an event they will in time get popped, and that would be terrible. They need to be a web based news paper for gambling as their name implys ant particapatints of such events, also advertizing such activitys could cause problems with the event comming off because its illegal gambling and disclosing the venue is fiving the Feds a road map to a bust. They should advertize that on a certain date the names of the players and time not the location, they will still get buys and not give up the road map to a bust. Sure were all in action and have been for years but its largely a private subculture, taking the action side of pool online is a bust looking for a place to happen and the way they set up this with the location falls squarly into the cross hairs of the law, bad plan. keep the location private. The feds have computers too and one pissed off whistle blower can ruin the whole thing.
 
Blackjack said:
I really don't think the money is what matters the most, John. Seeing these 2 go at it is going to be something special - and the action report is bringing us something that is finally going to show pool for what it is - veil removed - what goes on when two of the best in the world match up. THANK YOU JUSTIN! I think this is the best thing to happen to the game in a long time, and hopefully it pays off with alot of exposure.

I think everybody should make a lot of noise about this match-up and post about it everywhere - pool halls, everywhere on the internet to include poker forums too. Its not a lot of money compared to other events, but the excitement is what will attract everybody. Lets showcase what it was that drew us to the game in the first place - that's what this is about, not the cash.
Click to expand...

Right on! Okay I am going to put it on my blog and on a few websites that I control. I challenge everyone to put up at least one post on all the pool boards and at least one on any other non-pool message boards you frequent (if you can do it tactfully). Lets get the Action Report a full house for their video feed!

Somebody email Joe Rogan - his blog is huge.

John
 
Somebody has probably already mentioned it, but this is going to be the hottest match up in pool in years. I'm not going to knock some of the great, yet lesser known, players that are playing for high stakes, but Shane and Corey are the two hottest players right now. Whether these guys play $5000, $10,000, or $1,000,000, I'm watching simply because they are two of my favorites. The money amount means absolutely nothing to me, and I'm sure it's the case for many of the other pool fans/fanatics as well.

It's like watching the Super Bowl. I don't choose to watch because there is a certain amount of $ on the line. I watch it because it, supposedly, matches the two best teams up to find who is the very best. That's how I'm viewing this match up between Corey and Shane.

Also, there is no "creative accounting" going on here because each player is paying a $10,000 entry fee. If it were simply a back room money match, then of course one could say that they are playing for $10,000. But this is a totally legitimate two-man invitational tournament.

I cannot wait for this to go down!
-S
 
Fatboy said:
The Action Report is GREAT!!!!! I just hope they monitor the content on their site so they dont catch any heat for gambling, its legal to discuss gambiling and report on the outcome of events but if they imply they are the match maker of such an event they will in time get popped, and that would be terrible. They need to be a web based news paper for gambling as their name implys ant particapatints of such events, also advertizing such activitys could cause problems with the event comming off because its illegal gambling and disclosing the venue is fiving the Feds a road map to a bust. They should advertize that on a certain date the names of the players and time not the location, they will still get buys and not give up the road map to a bust. Sure were all in action and have been for years but its largely a private subculture, taking the action side of pool online is a bust looking for a place to happen and the way they set up this with the location falls squarly into the cross hairs of the law, bad plan. keep the location private. The feds have computers too and one pissed off whistle blower can ruin the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I think this is the whole point behind the two man tournament format. I think Chad and Justin have not mentioned in any fashion that they in any way gambling, making book, taking bets or taking sides. Whatever happens between private individuals in this manner is legal in South Dakota as far as I know.

The Action Report is only staging what amounts to an exhibition where the loser forfeits their pay. They are accepting no wagers of any kind over the internet, by telephone or in any other interstate fashion.

Believe me, this is so far under the radar of Joe Law. They could really care less, and especially for the small amounts we are talking about. The law these days would rather focus on drug seizures where they get to keep the cars, boats, money and so on that they seize.

I'd be more afraid of a heist though. That's the kind of thing that worries me when we start advertising these jamborees of free flowing money. When I went to Derby a few years ago I only had a bankroll of about 3 dimes on me but you can bet my hand was on it most of the time until I was safely down the highway.

Speaking of that here is something surreal - at Derby City one year there was a Southern Baptist Kid's Convention - Nothing funnier than seeing dozens of kids in Blue Jesus t-shirts walking down the hall among all the players trying to match up.
 
Fatboy said:
The Action Report is GREAT!!!!! I just hope they monitor the content on their site so they dont catch any heat for gambling, its legal to discuss gambiling and report on the outcome of events but if they imply they are the match maker of such an event they will in time get popped, and that would be terrible. They need to be a web based news paper for gambling as their name implys ant particapatints of such events, also advertizing such activitys could cause problems with the event comming off because its illegal gambling and disclosing the venue is fiving the Feds a road map to a bust. They should advertize that on a certain date the names of the players and time not the location, they will still get buys and not give up the road map to a bust. Sure were all in action and have been for years but its largely a private subculture, taking the action side of pool online is a bust looking for a place to happen and the way they set up this with the location falls squarly into the cross hairs of the law, bad plan. keep the location private. The feds have computers too and one pissed off whistle blower can ruin the whole thing.
Click to expand...


Well, they have already broken several laws even down to playing the copyrighted music in their podcasts.

IMHO while the intention of the site is good, the method is wrong, and just being the intermediary for the gambling can have huge consequences.

Not sure if when people talk about betting they think that they are being slick by saying jellybeans, like the Feds have never heard such a term or not but the amount of talk about betting lately on the forums makes me not want to be anywhere around the action (I know not a big loss for anyone). Plus the more important thing, people actually wagering on bets through paypal OMG that is the quickest path to prison you can get. Ebay and paypal have both said they openly cooperate with authorities by handing over any records to them.

I for sure like the idea about player A and player B will be in such and such a location as opposed to Chris B and David G are going to play for $10k

Just food for thought.
 
Gambling

u12armresl said:
Well, they have already broken several laws even down to playing the copyrighted music in their podcasts.

IMHO while the intention of the site is good, the method is wrong, and just being the intermediary for the gambling can have huge consequences.

Not sure if when people talk about betting they think that they are being slick by saying jellybeans, like the Feds have never heard such a term or not but the amount of talk about betting lately on the forums makes me not want to be anywhere around the action (I know not a big loss for anyone). Plus the more important thing, people actually wagering on bets through paypal OMG that is the quickest path to prison you can get. Ebay and paypal have both said they openly cooperate with authorities by handing over any records to them.

I for sure like the idea about player A and player B will be in such and such a location as opposed to Chris B and David G are going to play for $10k

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

They should be more descriptive in their avatar. :D
JoeyA
 
u12armresl said:
[...]
I for sure like the idea about player A and player B will be in such and such a location as opposed to Chris B and David G are going to play for $10k

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

I think you make some good points. And one thing to be wary of is people slowly getting bolder and bolder on these issues as they see other people doing it openly, etc.

But regarding your point above, where is it illegal for two players to make wagers on themselves in a game of skill? I'm not sure, but I don't think it's illegal where I am.

make a wager on a coin flip? illegal
make a wager on your own pool game (game of skill)? not illegal.
make a wager on someone else's pool game --illegal.

... I think.
 
Yow Knows.

mikepage said:
I think you make some good points. And one thing to be wary of is people slowly getting bolder and bolder on these issues as they see other people doing it openly, etc.

But regarding your point above, where is it illegal for two players to make wagers on themselves in a game of skill? I'm not sure, but I don't think it's illegal where I am.

make a wager on a coin flip? illegal
make a wager on your own pool game (game of skill)? not illegal.
make a wager on someone else's pool game --illegal.

... I think.
Click to expand...

I bet Esquire Eric knows, but he's not telling.
JoeyA
 
Thanks to everyone for there support of the Action Report and our first event. This event is exactly what it says it is : A two man invitational with a $10,000 entry. First prize is $20,000. If one of these two players would not have participated we had several more we would of invited. We are overjoyed we have the cooperation and participation of two of the best players in America.

We do not promote gambling or side betting in any way. When the event goes off there will be no spectators on the rail waving bales of money around trying to get down. We are not stupid. We will not allow it.This is a legit contest between two Champions. Whatever people besides the players and Action Report staff do amongst themselves in private is outside our control.

For anyone who feels the prize is too small, if they know of a way to provide it we would be happy to add money, we would be more than happy to give up the Action Report's spot as title sponsor. Right now this event has no sponsorship. We feel that instead of chasing sponsors with a promise of what we WILL DO, we will focus on putting on the best event we can and then go show potential sponsors what we HAVE DONE.

We plan on doing many more events and hope that as it grows everyone involved will benefit, Players, Fans, Sponsors, and us. We are going to make honest mistakes, we are also going to work hard to learn from them and move forward.

This whole thing came about because 2 guys were bullshitting about "The way I would do it..." Well, we're about to find out if we had any idea about what we were talking about.:D
 
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