crooked tournament, cuecollector.com

T

t dorn

Registered
Hello everyone,
I am posting on tournament in Greenwood south carolina that Greg Mathews aka cue-coin collector has at his bar in Greenwood. I had a post that was taken down by mr cue guy today about the tournament and how unfair it was. Director Mike Templeton has individuals lower than they should be but greg is in the blind perhaps or maybe not. I got barred fromt the tournmant yesterday for simply voicing an opipion. Behind that little smile is a bad tempered guy that cant take the truth. He fired his bartender Dj last week for making comment to get off work early but Dj saw in his heart to work for cue dude afterall. Greg you need to learnn some social skills and learn to deal with the public a little better and not be rude to customers continuously even if you dont need the money. Watch closest to you as well for they may just be the very ones robbing you blind. Wake up andStick to your past successes. T Dorn.
 
crooked tournament Greenwood south carolina

It is just sad that pool involves dealing with the backstabbing petty crooks that will do virtually anything to make a dollar. I left that part out from other post.
 
You never mentioned why you called it a crooked tournament. Pretty strong choice of words to just be thrown out there and not explained.

Surely you are not calling it a crooked tournament solely because you think someone is rated too low.

If that's the case then all the handicap tournaments are crooked because there is someone who always thinks someone is under rated.

Jake
 
Hi,

I am Mike Templeton, and I am the tournament director at the tournament in question. I would like to address this post.

Greg Matthews and I run a weekly tournament at Greg's new room, Rack TIme Billiards in Greenwood, SC. It is a handicapped tournament with players ranked on skill levels from 3 - 12. The way we run the tournament is, if a player finishes 1st or 2nd in the tournament, they move up a skill level. If they do not finish in the money for 3 tournaments, they move down a skill level. I know that in a handicapped tournament it is impossible to rank every player correctly the first time. But after people have participated for a few weeks, if the player is over ranked, they will eventually move down to where they have a chance to win. Also, If I inadvertantly rank someone too low, they will probably win, but then they too will soon be at a proper skill level.

I have been playing in SC my entire life, and know most of the players in the area, so I know about where to rank most of the participants. But if there is a player that I have not seen play, we ask anyone at the tournament if they know the players speed. We take this into consideration, but ultimately, Greg and I make the decision on the ranking. We do tell the participants that we reserve the right, after watching them play, to move them to a higher level if we think that they are ranked too low. We also let the players know that if we feel that their ranking is too high, they will be moved to a lower skill level. To date, I have lowered 2 participants that I initially ranked high, and have not raised anyone.

There was a player that came in with Trav, who posted this, that I have never seen play. That is where the disagreement began. Trav said that the player should be ranked a skill level 5, and I didn't disagree with him. But after talking with Greg, we felt that in fairness to the players that have supported the tournament, and never having seen the gentleman play, we should start the player off at a level 6, and if he was ranked high, move him down. Trav accused us of calling him a liar, and not believing what he said. Again, that was not the case. Then he went on to call us crooks, and say that our friends got preferred rankings. We told him calmly that if he disagreed, we were sorry, but that he had the right not to play if he felt the rankings weren't fair. I would also like to say that for everyone who has complained, there have been 10 players who say that ours is the most fair handicapped tournament that they have played.

This is what happened. Greg promotes pool better than anyone in the state, and adds 100.00 twice weekly to his tournaments. No other tournaments around have any money added. And we have had skill levels from 3 to 11 win tournaments. Greg has only been opened for a couple of months, but the response to him, and his room has been nothing but positive. Neither of us would intentionally deceive or steal from any players. Anyone who knows us will attest to this.

Thanks for letting me tell my side of what happened.

Mike Templeton
 
Mike sure gave the board much more information than the original poster. If Mike's post is true, I would have to side with the tournament director. As we all know, there is two sides of every story and the TD explained his side much better than T Dorn?? I hope that they can work it out like adults!
 
I would just like to add that (before this episode), I considered Travis a personal friend of mine. We had practiced together at my house on occasion and had had many conversations about business matters and investing.

This unfortunate incident occured at the tournament table while Mike was collecting entry fees from the players! The "you guys are crooks" statement occured at that time in front of the other players.

I had overheard the conversation between Mike and Travis discussing this kids potential ranking. Travis was insisting that Mike rank the guy a "5" and Mike felt since he was an "unknown" we would start him out as a "6" and then watch him play. Mike told Travis that if he watched a match and felt the guy was over ranked, he would move him down DURING the tournament. That sounded like a fair solution to me, but then Trav started causing a scene and saying we were crooks and ranking our buddies low...etc, etc. At this point, I felt the situation was getting out of hand, so I jumped in and told Trav that the guy was going to be a six, end of story. For some reason, Travis would not stop arguing about the subject and kept going on and on about it. That's when I told him that I was not going to argue with anyone in my own place of business and to leave.

I would also like to take a minute and personally thank Mike Templeton for the super job he has done at these tournaments. He conducts himself in a professional manner at all times and ranks players based on his best judgement. I can not think of anyone who could do a better job with these tournaments. Thanks Mike!! (who by the way is a "12" now)

The forums on my website are temporarly offline because someone is posting multiple messages under different names from the same computer. Once I figure out how to block this activity, I will put the forums back online.

Sincerely,
Greg Matthews.
 
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crooked tournament

yes I am sorry that I wasnt clear but understood that most of the people reading the post on the other board and those who replied have already read the other post. Off course they make it sound like they are sent from heaven and are perfect. I have been shooting in SC all my life as well and know everyone Templeton makes these 50 mile travels with and know that the tournament director is bringing people and in and going in with them. Same old moves that get most non players disgusted and quit pool. And Mr cue collector wasnt called a crook but was simply told the truth that he didnt know better on all the handicaps but Mr Templeton nows that he and I both know the truth. That was lame for the owner to lose his cool and tell anyone to leave for this reason simply because of his bad attitude which take it from me will not help you, something I learned well under the age of 6 years old. Mr mathews probably has the other post saved since he is a computer wiz and could paste the previous post made by me and others but I'm sure he will not because he knows he was wrong. I can understand the posts on this board and poeple that dont live locally why they simply read this post and agree with them. When the locals that made other post and when the word of mouth spreads as to what went on that will be all I need to have topics posted on this subject. Afterall this was intended to be on the local board but someone took off. Just let everyone know that walks in the door know were this post is and look at there post days later and see the truth. Mike does handle his self very professional which is dangerous to some. I started to post that if gregory moved post or deleted this would move here but figured Greg would be smart enough to leave up and try to learn something but.... Anyway Im sure you will see other topics posted and know several that arent coming back because they believe in who .... Mike you shouldnt have ever said a thing to myself about being honest or I wouldnt have called you a crook so thats why I told the truth on what you are doing in the tournament and talk lower when you are discussing games for the owner with others besides him, you dont want him to have any reason you are double steering him. He may have the sound on that veo cam were you can clearly here and GREG may be listening. Please dont talk to me about honestly, please GOD! Greg when your tournament dwindles down to 4 players you may realize that I spoke for lots of people in there who may be scared to tell Mike what they feel but everyone I spoke with thanked the hell out of me for speaking and it is just the principal.
 
How much difference can there be between someone ranked a "5" and a "6". I am assuming that you are spotting balls in 9ball or something with that broad of a rating scale. What does the difference measure up to..5 extra balls? Seems like kind of a tough thing to argue over. I mean you have your "A" players who are ranked high, and your bangers who can't hold a cue...almong side all of these decent players who get jumbled in the middle. Some days they play better than others and each beat each other so it would be tough to accurately judge the middle rankings...alla 5-8. Just an observation.
 
t dorn said:
Blubbering, simpering, whimpering
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Quit crying. Were you and your friend trying to steal the tournament? Could you not wait to see whether or not a 6 was a fair ranking or not? Or did you decide to become TD in the place of Mike since you know what everybody should be ranked? Maybe you should open up your own pool hall and listen to all the cry babies. I used to manage a room and run tournaments, so I've heard all the crap before. Your tune is nothing new under the sun. Don't like it? Step up and play non-handicapped (open) tournaments. Otherwise, quit bitching. It ain't like you're going to get rich playing in a weekly handicapped tournament. From the owner's and TD's points-of-view, your tune is probably the same BS they've heard a million times. It doesn't matter what kind of tourney it is, if it's handicapped, somebody's whining. Is it really worth messing up a friendship/relationship over a 1 point difference in rank? Or are you just thinking you'll get some justification by publicly trying to rank on the owner and TD? What are you, like twelve or thirteen? Sheesh, a mind is a terrible thing to waste....

-djb
 
Trav,

I never questioned you honesty. In fact, quite the opposite. I told you and the forums that I didn't disagree that your thought that your friend should be ranked a 5 was accurate. You know the reasons he was to be a 6. We have been friends for alot of years, and it is unfortunate that this has happened.

You did call me a crook. You say that I bring people in, rank them low, and split with them. I challenge you to find anyone to corroborate this story. It is simply not true. I haven't made a dollar from anyone else who has played the tournament. And as far as bringing people in from 50 miles away, Greenville, Spartanburg, and Columbia are all around 50 miles away. I try to recruit players from all of these areas to play. And we get about 30% participation from these towns. And this Saturday was the first time I have ever heard any dissention from anyone concerning rankings. I feel if the question had not concerned your friend that you brought in, you would have agreed with the decision.

Anyone who has any ideas to make this tournament more fair, please let Greg or me know. We are willing to listen to any players' ideas to help give everyone a chance to win.

Also, to answer RunArak's question, there is not much difference between a 5 and 6. The ranking system spots the last 2 balls for each number difference. If a 7 were playing a 6, the 6 would get the last 2. If a 7 were playing a 5, they would get the last 3. It's this way until you get to a 4 number difference. The it starts with the wild 8 and last 4. Then wild 7-8 and last 4, etc. It is as fair a system that I have seen. As I said before, we have had winners with ranks from 3 - 11. Everyone who plays knows that no handicapped tournament is perfect. There are too many different skill levels.

Mike Templeton
 
crooked tournament

That is exactly my point. I am not crying about it was simply making a point and you are exactly right. You cant make a killing winning weekly tournaments, I used to win about everyone I've entered and do play in open events and do fair every time. I will give the house pro Mike Templeton which is a 12 the last 2 and he can bet whatever he can get staked for. Thank god I opended up a business myself and do not depend on this for a living because there are too many petty crooks as everyone knows. It wasnt the handincap just the point that Templeton is is whispering in Greg's ear like I'm some kind of crook like himself. Templeton I know were you have been the last 5 years. Does anyone else? I was trying to watch out for a (thought of friend) but when a person that i know the background of makes a comment to me like that that's when I expose. I hope you keep that whale on the line and drain him for all his cash. Greg has money and Templeton should still have some saved from the old days but yet you are getting screwed. I can give a darn less what my handicap was because the house pro will not give myself any action regardless. I could have not told the truth and played on the tournament and probably won the tournament but what is right is right. Im out like Templeton in the match against myself him getting weight in a little local weekly tournament. Get him for all you can but, there is no such thing as afterlife.
 
crooked tournament ... director????

Hi Folks,

Just a quick story on an incident that happened to me several years ago. A national tour visited my state. My first match was against the auction high bid player. Score eight / eight. I break, make a ball. The one ball is very close to the nine, almost parallel. If I draw the one, the cue ball will move forward about an inch or so first, contact the nine and, the nine might go. I hit it hard, the nine drops. The director calls bad hit. I was pissed! My opponent runs out. Later, one of the countries top players came over to me. He saw the shot from ahead and slightly above. It was a good hit all the way. It seems my opponent and the tour director were travelling together. Oh well, poop happens. Who was right?

Personally, I don't think this forum is a place to call someone a liar while naming names in print. Two peoples reputations are being questioned. Come on guys, meet face to face and talk about it. If there truely was a reason, not an excuse, for this disagreement, work it out in private! It appears to be a genuine disagreement on the rankings. Incidently, I try very hard to avoid handicap events because of this problem, real or perceived. The way most rooms in our area deal with this problem is start all unknown players very near the top ranking and then move them down, if necessary.
 
t dorn said:
yes I am sorry that I wasnt clear...<snip blah blah blah blah>
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Just another cry baby pool player that didn't get to steal a tournament and doesn't know how to construct readable sentences with proper punctuation. Maybe you should take some of that negative energy and try to do something constructive with it, like practice!
 
From what I've seen it looks like they made the right decision. In a handicapped tournament you really have to watch out for everyone that's playing. That means overranking new players and adjusting them as they play more.

In every handicapped tournament I ever ran if I think the guy is a 7 and he has never been in before, he has to play as an 8. It's always better to piss off that one guy than to let him in under handicap and piss everyone off. If he is just looking to play and not rob the place they usually don't have a problem with it.

No handicap tournament is ever going to be accurate and you will always have people whining. Especially someone that only sees a person play once and assumes that is their normal speed of play.

I have heard many good things about the tournament in question from a few players that played in one. Both thought thay were fairly treated and ranked as they should have been.
 
t dorn said:
yes I am sorry that I wasnt clear but understood that most of the people reading the post on the other board and those who replied have already read the other post. Off course they make it sound like they are sent from heaven and are perfect. I have been shooting in SC all my life as well and know everyone Templeton makes these 50 mile travels with and know that the tournament director is bringing people and in and going in with them. Same old moves that get most non players disgusted and quit pool. And Mr cue collector wasnt called a crook but was simply told the truth that he didnt know better on all the handicaps but Mr Templeton nows that he and I both know the truth. That was lame for the owner to lose his cool and tell anyone to leave for this reason simply because of his bad attitude which take it from me will not help you, something I learned well under the age of 6 years old. Mr mathews probably has the other post saved since he is a computer wiz and could paste the previous post made by me and others but I'm sure he will not because he knows he was wrong. I can understand the posts on this board and poeple that dont live locally why they simply read this post and agree with them. When the locals that made other post and when the word of mouth spreads as to what went on that will be all I need to have topics posted on this subject. Afterall this was intended to be on the local board but someone took off. Just let everyone know that walks in the door know were this post is and look at there post days later and see the truth. Mike does handle his self very professional which is dangerous to some. I started to post that if gregory moved post or deleted this would move here but figured Greg would be smart enough to leave up and try to learn something but.... Anyway Im sure you will see other topics posted and know several that arent coming back because they believe in who .... Mike you shouldnt have ever said a thing to myself about being honest or I wouldnt have called you a crook so thats why I told the truth on what you are doing in the tournament and talk lower when you are discussing games for the owner with others besides him, you dont want him to have any reason you are double steering him. He may have the sound on that veo cam were you can clearly here and GREG may be listening. Please dont talk to me about honestly, please GOD! Greg when your tournament dwindles down to 4 players you may realize that I spoke for lots of people in there who may be scared to tell Mike what they feel but everyone I spoke with thanked the hell out of me for speaking and it is just the principal.
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I don't know about your poolplaying but I would rank your writing skills a 3.

Wally~~sick of whiners
 
rated tourny

Hello all: old stick man here, well the old you rated me to high deal, ha in have heard that so many times some of you so call know it all try to run a rated tourny!!!!! vmake you pull you hair out , because you hear the same thing every week. MIke - Gregg I know what you a going through , dont let one apple spoil the hole barrle. My weekley tourny run almos like yours. had 46players last night been avg 40 every sun, yes I get dissigrements, but we settle them,The first persion that calls me a crook in my pool room is out the door rightn then and is not welcome back Ialso rate a player high if i dont know him-her. keep up the good work you guys are doing for pool STICK
 
Mr. Harris if your panties will twist back out of a knot I will type this brief letter to you just to let you know I can properly type. I do not see any need to type properly when writing long paragraphs when I have tons of things I need to do. No this isn't a crybaby player I am a lot more honest than you know who. I started to type another run on sentence but caught myself on your behalf. I don't have to steal anything I have worked for all I have got. It would be so simple to run players in there and steal that tournament. For one I wouldn't have claimed to know the guy if I was robbing the tournament. I would have done some underhanded bs and succeeded. Where do you live? Just make your two minute judgements accordingly speak out of ignorance. Actually Greg if you could post the original post you could also see that it is typed properly. Go yell that grammar school preaching to your son or daughter. Thanks mom! That exclamation was with authority.
No stick I wouldn't call you a crook in your pool room in Georgia but Templeton calling me out was just too much when Greg's kids can probably what is going on in there. I treat people with the same respect I am givenand don't like to be called anything just as anyone else. now bak to my incorrect grammeeer, good dae buddie.
 
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