CTE to Snooker Players

teedotaj

teedotaj

teedot oohhhhhh
Silver Member
Okay I'm just really curious.

With all the talk in the main forum about CTE, what do you guys think about it? lol I imagine snooker players would think it's silly. Snooker players are very textbook with fundamentals and CTE does not make sense and no where near textbook but it does work for some...lol..but I have been wrong many times with my assessments of what people think...so what do you guys think of it?

Are there any snooker players out there who has entertained the notion?

I mean no one shoots the ball better than snooker players IMO

I'm not a snooker player but I still can't get the idea behind CTE so I'm wondering if you guys feel the same as I.

This is not to bash CTE as I do think it is useful as a reference point for pool players who may have lost their way into aiming. i just wanna hear opinions coming from players with snooker background.

I guess the question is..since snooker players are the epitome of great potters. If CTE is to improve your potting, would you be inclined give it a chance?

Thank you!
aaron
 
Lets put it this way, if you said aiming system/bhe/cte/pivot or whatever to a snooker player they would either just give you a blank stare or laugh themselves silly. Then they would bash in a century using mostly center ball :lmao:
 
Agreed. Beginning snooker players are taught fractional aiming, if you listen to commentary, they always refer to potting angles as half ball hits, quarter ball hits etc. I've heard ghost ball mentioned too.

Other than that it's a heavy focus on mechanics. Lets look at it this way, An awful lot of amateur pool players can pot all the balls very consistently up close (short 3-4 foot shots), the only reason why they miss farther away is due to execution. But for some reason they feel as though the potting angle changes to something more mysterious once you move the cb back to 6-8 feet away.

I am very confident the primary benefit of CTE is that it forces the player to aim using their cue, which unconsciously helps their alignement. I think many people forget about that.
 
CTE means absolutely nothing to me and i very much doubt you'll find any snooker player anywhere who has a clue either.

I'll go have a read about it in the main forum before saying any more.

edit.. Read the thread for about 5 mins then dropped off to sleep. Bookmarked it for next time i'm suffering from insomnia.
 
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Well, I had the opportunity to watch top snooker players twice now in person. Last week I was at the pro-am tournament in Wels, Austria. Many top famous names names were there, including world champion Neil Robertson.

Experience and many thousands of hours of careful structured practice + super talent + mental toughness. That's how they got to that level.

If you ever get the chance to watch top snooker pros in person, never miss it. Forget the television and youtube clips. It will broaden your perspective in pool too. You will be amazed at what those guys can do on those tables.
 
Okay so I was surfing around the forum and I found this :

dgem said:
Hi, I have personally tried Pivoting systems CTE,RONV at snooker table. It works well. You need to have better stroke to avoid putting english on the cueball.



Pivoting Systems like CTE, RONV are an exact system and great for snooker IMO specially when you are already air pivoting.
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http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=188638

what do you guys think of that response?
 
Philthepockets said:
And he has done what in snooker ?
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Exactly! And what does the comment, "CTE... ... works well in snooker" really mean? That he potted a couple balls? Tell him to move the object ball back from the pocket, deeper into the center of the table, and move the cue ball back away from that object ball. Then try CTE on that shot -- see how "exact" he is then...
 
These aiming systems are unheard of in snooker. Much more important that you can deliver the cue in a straight line without unintentional side. Pool and snooker are about "feel" and there's no getting around it!
 
teedotaj said:
i'm still surprised no one has ever brought you guys into the discussion. lol
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teedotaj:

Actually, it was probably me that you continually see inviting the CTE guys to explore other [more precise] pocket-based cue sports, like snooker and Russian Pyramid, and see if they see any sign, any hint, of any sort of pivot-based aiming. And they won't. The very notion of pivoting your cue goes against the foundation of these more precise pocket-based cue sports. As other posters have said, and a play on that old real estate joke, "it's all about foundation, foundation, foundation."

-Sean
 
Hey, I heard that many years ago Walter Lindrum and Joe Davis phoned across the pond to Hal Houle and then began winning championships. Just something I heard. :D
 
sfleinen said:
Exactly! And what does the comment, "CTE... ... works well in snooker" really mean? That he potted a couple balls? Tell him to move the object ball back from the pocket, deeper into the center of the table, and move the cue ball back away from that object ball. Then try CTE on that shot -- see how "exact" he is then...
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Agreed, not sure what works well means. a 50 break? 70-100? Or just 20?

Actually I'm not sure how consistent CTE would be (assuming we wanted to be a 100 break player). Pivoting around the cue doesn't lend itself consistent fundamentals. But I could be wrong.
 
teedotaj said:
Okay I'm just really curious.

With all the talk in the main forum about CTE, what do you guys think about it?
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It's geometrically incoherent, and it has been highly amusing watching trained physicists and university professors gently and repeatedly pointing this obvious fact out. At it's heart it's woo, allied to the rather mundane observation that any non parallel lines will converge at some point. The fact that this magic pivot point can be inside the cue ball itself or miles behind your back depending on distance between the balls and cut angles is completely lost on them. At the end of the day all aiming systems are crap. They're a throwback to billiards players, who by-and-large couldn't pot a ball for toffee.

I was especially amused to watch the main protagonist's video in one of those threads, where he demonstrates how he does 'Exactly The Same' hokey cokey on each shot, while clearly and unequivocally doing completely different things every single time. At no point whatsoever does he mention the blatant and arbitrary shifting of his bridge hand (or not), or why he scrunches it over, (or not) to make the ball go in. The reality is, when he realises (by feel) that his magic system has come up with a completely stupid answer, he contorts himself onto the very cue line he should have been on in the bloody first place. It's comical. And the best of it is, he's crap. He misses half of them, and half of those that do go in hit the cushion three inches away from the pocket. I can't describe how impressed I wasn't.

But the best quote of all is attributed to the guru himself, Obi-Wan Ken-Houle. Apparently, while one of these students was under the master's very own tutelage, he asked why he still needed to twist again like he did last summer for a straight in shot. And the master's reply was "How do you know it's not a 3 degree cut?" Fu@k me. I mean, Fu@k me. We're being told where we've been going completely wrong these many years by someone who can't tell if shot is straight in, plus or minus 3 degrees. Fu@k me.

Here's how every decent snooker player I have ever known does it:-
Cue Ball
Object Ball
Pocket
That's it. What else is there to work out? How can you possibly misjudge the angle? They're not going anywhere, until you hit em.

There is only ever one cue line that makes the ball go in the pocket. You can see it when you are still sat in your chair. You can see it when you walk up to the table, and you can see it when you stand on that line. You see it when you put your hand down on that line, and you make damn sure your cue is pointing down that line and nowhere else, through the exact centre of the cue ball. Then the hard bit is striking through that line, without deviation. It works on all shots irrespective of angle or distance, including straight in shots, plus or minus zero degrees. All in accordance with the known laws of physics. No woo required.

Boro Nut
 
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Here's a little thought experiment. The CTE boys believe that they simply have to repeat the exact same pre-shot routine and they will magically be aligned to the cue line that pots the ball, regardless of cut angle. Ignoring that repeating the same behaviour and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity, if they believe what they say to be true, then they should be able to find the required line without needing to know whether it's straight in, or a cut.

So let them set up on their shot, then freeze. I will then place two balls down, eight whole inches apart, either straight ahead or at 45 degrees (at my discretion), and call it the pocket. And all they have to do is make the object ball pass between them, without making any further cue adjustment whatsoever. Do you think I would get any takers?

Boro Nut
 
It is amazing isn't it how, to get from A to B these clowns need to drive around the block in reverse with there red noses on and their arse hanging out the window.
 
Yo Boro Nut,

Whatever ails you, be it boredom, a busted tv, or worse still a busted leg stopping you from going to play snooker I hope your ailment heals quick mate.

Definately summats up that you even read that crap let alone take time out to comment on it.
 
Boro nut,

You have provided the best answer from both pro and con side of the debate. lol
 
Thing is there are two sorts of very good cueists. Those that just do it automatically by instint, natural ability, and after years of practice and the other sort who do exactly the same but then try to explain it.
 
Boro Nut said:
Here's a little thought experiment. The CTE boys believe that they simply have to repeat the exact same pre-shot routine and they will magically be aligned to the cue line that pots the ball, regardless of cut angle. Ignoring that repeating the same behaviour and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity, if they believe what they say to be true, then they should be able to find the required line without needing to know whether it's straight in, or a cut.

So let them set up on their shot, then freeze. I will then place two balls down, eight whole inches apart, either straight ahead or at 45 degrees (at my discretion), and call it the pocket. And all they have to do is make the object ball pass between them, without making any further cue adjustment whatsoever. Do you think I would get any takers?

Boro Nut
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Down where? CTE is a stance to ball to ball relationship so you stand behind the cueball and sight it. The pocket is in play peripherally. If you want to make the object ball go anywhere else but the pocket then you certainly have to adjust your stance in relation to the cueball/object ball.

I am afraid I don't understand your meaning could you please diagram it for me and then I can do what ever it is on video that you are wanting and discuss it there.

As to your critique of my technique on video I don't know which one you were watching but it doesn't matter because I clearly explain that I have no idea whether I am doing it properly or not.

By the way, Steve Davis does not teach "lines of aim". He teaches that all shots are either a full ball, half ball ball or quarter ball hit or just in-between.

That is a "covering" method of aiming whereby the cue ball should cover the object ball by the required fraction to determine the aiming position of the shooter.

You can find these lessons from Steve Davis on YouTube.

As to billiard players not being able to pot balls, I don't think that you want to go head to head to with many of the top billiard players in any rotation games on a pool table. On a Snooker table the top players are well trained to the specifics of their equipment.

Snooker players however cannot beat top pool players consistently on pool equipment and they certainly cannot hold a candle to billiard players on their equipment.

CTE might be complete nonsense but those who care to try it out will come to that conclusion on their own if it is in fact no good.

Until then while you have your fun bashing it and those of us who are having fun messing around with it we will just continue to go our way and do our thing happy to provide you with your cheap entertainment of the day.
 
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