Today during some stroke drill I noticed I impart unwanted spin most of the time. I usually grip the cue a little lower ( toward the butt) than where the balance point is. I tried to hold the cue more towards the butt and immediately I noticed my stroke is much straighter and I give little or no unwanted spin. The problem is I feel my stroke much less loose and the cue seems like it weighs 50 pounds. If I hold the cue more toward the balance point my stroke is much looser and I have more confidence but the quality of my stroke decreases. The problem is not the weight because the cue weights only 19oz. What do you think? How can I fix this problem?
Cue: balance point, grip and weight
- Thread starter Slh
- Start date
Do you keep your shoulder on your butt hand relaxed?
Also you might try adjusting your bridge hand.
Bend your knees just a bit instead of bending at the waste.
Are you crowding the cue? Move your feet an inch or two away from your cue.
Are your feet and waste facing to forward to the shot? Turn yourself into the cue.
I see people all the time that hold the very butt of the cue. Most don't have a stroke or a game but some have mastered it. Most that do have a big wingspan and their form looks good.
Its hard to say without seeing you but there are some common problems I see frequently.
My guess is the underlined above. Your crowding the cue.
Also you might try adjusting your bridge hand.
Bend your knees just a bit instead of bending at the waste.
Are you crowding the cue? Move your feet an inch or two away from your cue.
Are your feet and waste facing to forward to the shot? Turn yourself into the cue.
I see people all the time that hold the very butt of the cue. Most don't have a stroke or a game but some have mastered it. Most that do have a big wingspan and their form looks good.
Its hard to say without seeing you but there are some common problems I see frequently.
My guess is the underlined above. Your crowding the cue.
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i try to hold the cue as loosely as possible.
I use a snooker stance.
Also I don't grip the cue on the butt but near the butt...
With "crowding" do you mean i'm gripping the cue too tightly? If yes, this is not the case because this would mean when I grip the cue near the balance I should feel akward too..
I use a snooker stance.
Also I don't grip the cue on the butt but near the butt...
With "crowding" do you mean i'm gripping the cue too tightly? If yes, this is not the case because this would mean when I grip the cue near the balance I should feel akward too..
By crowding the cue I mean that your body may be to close to it.
When you stroke, as your hand nears your hip its crowed, causing your stroke direction to change. Its the best I can explain crowding a cue.
The same thing may happen if your short and your feet have more of a snooker stance, if your right handed try moving your right foot backwards a bit more. This will cause your stroke to be slightly further away from your body as your right hand passes your hip.
Is the balance point on your pool cue about 17 to 19 inches from the butt? If it feels heavy I bet it about 17 inches, you'll have to do the conversion to metric. LOL
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grip
the correct place for your grip hand is wherever it is that your hand is pointing straight down when the tip of your cue makes contact with the cue ball. This will be in different places for different people due to arm length and bridge length.
the correct place for your grip hand is wherever it is that your hand is pointing straight down when the tip of your cue makes contact with the cue ball. This will be in different places for different people due to arm length and bridge length.
This is correct. The reason for holding the cue in this place, is so that you strike the CB at the bottom of the pendulum swing (and in the middle of your swing)...making an accurate contact with the CB, regardless of where you aim on the CB.
To the OP: You may think you're holding the cue loosely, but you may be tensing up, or clenching the cue as you strike the CB, which is very common. We like to call the grip a cradle, and the cradle pressure should remain the same throughout the range of stroke...from the start of the final backswing, to the finish of the forward stroke. Everybody holds the cue loose on the backswing, but many tend to tighten up whey they change direction...particularly when they are going to hit it hard. BTW, the balance point on the cue has no bearing on where you should hold it.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
To the OP: You may think you're holding the cue loosely, but you may be tensing up, or clenching the cue as you strike the CB, which is very common. We like to call the grip a cradle, and the cradle pressure should remain the same throughout the range of stroke...from the start of the final backswing, to the finish of the forward stroke. Everybody holds the cue loose on the backswing, but many tend to tighten up whey they change direction...particularly when they are going to hit it hard. BTW, the balance point on the cue has no bearing on where you should hold it.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
The thing is:
- if I hold the cue more towards the cue balance point I feel my stroke very loose and I'm confident, but actually my stroke is bad, because i give unwanted spin.
- If I hold towards the butt, I feel my stroke not loose, actually very rigid, but my stroke is much straighter.
I'm not changing the way I grip the cue and my forearm is always perpendicular with the table. The only thing I change is where I hold the cue everything else is the same.
Why this feeling difference?
It's not the arrow. It's the indian 
(sarcasm)
Threads like this reveal the importance of being comfortable with a cue as opposed to shooting with just anything. It's nice to see some folks take a serious look at it. For me, building cues, the most important thing in the build is the balance. I found in my own game that often times my performance was affected by the cue, especially if I had worked out that day or was hung over. My muscle memory was compromised & the cue would feel alien, like it wasn't even mine. I began messing around with the weight bolt(s) & moving things around, and pretty quickly figured out that a more forward balance was better for my consistency. Next thing I know, i'm taking it a step farther & building cues. With building my own cue I was able to formulate a construction method that gave me the feel & balance that literally made the game easier to play....for me.
I can personally see the difference a cue can make, so when I see folks claim that cues don't matter, I wonder to myself what the hell they are thinking. Then when I see threads like this, I can relate to it & appreciate what you are going through. Good luck figuring it out. It's a science so don't be afraid to experiment. Once you have it figured out & have knowledge of what works best for you, then you can alter your cue to fit or have a cue built specifically for you. Yes, the vast majority of your game relies on your skill. But discounting the value a cue has on your game can cost you some edge.
(sarcasm)Threads like this reveal the importance of being comfortable with a cue as opposed to shooting with just anything. It's nice to see some folks take a serious look at it. For me, building cues, the most important thing in the build is the balance. I found in my own game that often times my performance was affected by the cue, especially if I had worked out that day or was hung over. My muscle memory was compromised & the cue would feel alien, like it wasn't even mine. I began messing around with the weight bolt(s) & moving things around, and pretty quickly figured out that a more forward balance was better for my consistency. Next thing I know, i'm taking it a step farther & building cues. With building my own cue I was able to formulate a construction method that gave me the feel & balance that literally made the game easier to play....for me.
I can personally see the difference a cue can make, so when I see folks claim that cues don't matter, I wonder to myself what the hell they are thinking. Then when I see threads like this, I can relate to it & appreciate what you are going through. Good luck figuring it out. It's a science so don't be afraid to experiment. Once you have it figured out & have knowledge of what works best for you, then you can alter your cue to fit or have a cue built specifically for you. Yes, the vast majority of your game relies on your skill. But discounting the value a cue has on your game can cost you some edge.
Until Scott can answer your question, have you tried just using your index and middle finger to grip the cue? Dont include your ring finger or little finger in the grip keep them lose. When I get tense I want to grip the butt, any more I realize it right away and let my ring and little finger relax a bit while slightly increasing a three finger grip. This grip allows the cue to do the work, as you follow threw I let my trailing fingers move to the grip position as my stroke follows threw, so that when you shot and reach the end of your stroke you have a natural four finger grip.
thanks for this post.It's not the arrow. It's the indian
Threads like this reveal the importance of being comfortable with a cue as opposed to shooting with just anything. It's nice to see some folks take a serious look at it. For me, building cues, the most important thing in the build is the balance. I found in my own game that often times my performance was affected by the cue, especially if I had worked out that day or was hung over. My muscle memory was compromised & the cue would feel alien, like it wasn't even mine. I began messing around with the weight bolt(s) & moving things around, and pretty quickly figured out that a more forward balance was better for my consistency. Next thing I know, i'm taking it a step farther & building cues. With building my own cue I was able to formulate a construction method that gave me the feel & balance that literally made the game easier to play....for me.
I can personally see the difference a cue can make, so when I see folks claim that cues don't matter, I wonder to myself what the hell they are thinking. Then when I see threads like this, I can relate to it & appreciate what you are going through. Good luck figuring it out. It's a science so don't be afraid to experiment. Once you have it figured out & have knowledge of what works best for you, then you can alter your cue to fit or have a cue built specifically for you. Yes, the vast majority of your game relies on your skill. But discounting the value a cue has on your game can cost you some edge.
I grip the cue with 5 fingers, but the problem is when i pull back the cue. I don't think the grip is the problem because when i pull the cue back i open my hand a lot and i hold the cue with only 2 fingers.
Check this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paCPeRlVaA0
at 0:34 ( and during the entire video) you can see how much open Stalev hand is in the backstroke, I have a very similar action.
Actually Slh, you're not alone. I myself prefer rearward-balanced cues. Perhaps I'm an anomaly, but I actually like the carom specs on a cue, because, for me, it feels more like I'm swinging the cue in a pure pendulum, rather than "pushing" a forward-weighted steel rod through my bridge hand. For me, with a rearward-balanced cue, my stroke feels more "free" and more in-tune with feeling the motion of the cue, than if the weight were more forward-balanced, which feels like I'm pushing a heavy bolt through my bridge hand fingers. I guess it's the distribution of weight that's the problem.
As for why your stroke may be off, Scott's tips are great. I also want to offer that there may be an issue with your grip -- not so much the grip pressure, but rather the contact points in your hand, that may be causing the problem with skewing your stroke when hand placement changes. As your hand "tilts" while going through the pendulum stroke, keep an eye of what parts of your hand are in contact with the cue. You may find out that one side of your hand (most likely the palm side) has more contact points on the cue than the thumb-side, and this asymmetric contact on the sides of the cue can skew or cause yaw in your stroke. One poster mentioned using a three-fingered grip (i.e. thumb + index + middle finger). I think this is a great thing for you to try. You want to try to keep the number of contact points on both "sides" of the cue as symmetrical as you can (even though the human hand itself is not symmetrical), so that no skew or yaw is introduced in your delivery.
The best thing, obviously, is to hire an instructor that specializes in the stroke (i.e. SPF). But failing that, temporarily, you can invest in a laser trainer, like the LaserStroke. I have one of these, and let me tell you, the laser doesn't lie -- if your stroke has a hitch, skew, or yaw in it, you will see it immediately. And using this immediate feedback, you can make adjustments (e.g. in your grip, in your arm position, etc.) to correct it.
In summary, I don't think you're "strange" for preferring a balance point closer to your hand -- it *is* feel, afterall. You can make modifications to your stroke, or you can adjust your weight bolts further back, or just look for a rearward-balanced cue. You have lots of options here.
Just some things to try -- hope they're helpful!
-Sean