Cue ball hop on Pro Break

S

Submerge

Member
I'm watching a lot of pro matches. They always lineup/aim with the tip of the cue intersecting the cloth and the ball (very low). Then the cue tip comes up as they stroke and the cue ball usually hops a couple inches after contacting the ball at the point of the rack. Sometimes it appears to have some top spin, other times some back spin, other times no spin.

I've been told that the cue ball is actually hit downward and it actually flies across the table slightly off the cloth. It rebounds upward because it's hitting the first ball slightly above center line.

Sometimes it happens on my breaks but would to know exactly what the physics are so I can focus on this when stroking a break shot.

BTW, the pros usually start ball address with the tip intersecting the ball and cloth for all shots where there is room. I think this it to firmly identify the exact center of the cue ball....

Thanks.
 
Submerge said:
I've been told that the cue ball is actually hit downward and it actually flies across the table slightly off the cloth. It rebounds upward because it's hitting the first ball slightly above center line.
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This is what happens on any shot that is hit with a lot of force. It is impossible to get a truly level cue, so basically any hard break shot is just a low-arc jump shot. Same physics apply.

Best approach is to use as level a stroke as possible, and ignore the physics of it. Hitting the ball you are aiming at fully and accurately will keep the cueball on the table.
 
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Submerge said:
I'm watching a lot of pro matches. They always lineup/aim with the tip of the cue intersecting the cloth and the ball (very low). Then the cue tip comes up as they stroke and the cue ball usually hops a couple inches after contacting the ball at the point of the rack. Sometimes it appears to have some top spin, other times some back spin, other times no spin.

I've been told that the cue ball is actually hit downward and it actually flies across the table slightly off the cloth. It rebounds upward because it's hitting the first ball slightly above center line.

Sometimes it happens on my breaks but would to know exactly what the physics are so I can focus on this when stroking a break shot.

BTW, the pros usually start ball address with the tip intersecting the ball and cloth for all shots where there is room. I think this it to firmly identify the exact center of the cue ball....

Thanks.
Click to expand...

See the videos and info here:

 
Submerge said:
I'm watching a lot of pro matches. They always lineup/aim with the tip of the cue intersecting the cloth and the ball (very low). Then the cue tip comes up as they stroke and the cue ball usually hops a couple inches after contacting the ball at the point of the rack. Sometimes it appears to have some top spin, other times some back spin, other times no spin.

I've been told that the cue ball is actually hit downward and it actually flies across the table slightly off the cloth. It rebounds upward because it's hitting the first ball slightly above center line.

Sometimes it happens on my breaks but would to know exactly what the physics are so I can focus on this when stroking a break shot.

BTW, the pros usually start ball address with the tip intersecting the ball and cloth for all shots where there is room. I think this it to firmly identify the exact center of the cue ball....

Thanks.
Click to expand...

i actually learned the pop break (for 10-ball) by making an overhand bridge on the rail. from the center diamond, full ball hit. probably very unorthodox but it helped me understand this break. then i moved to the kitchen line and replicated the break by using a slightly higher bridge than i had used before. some will say the pop break has no value in itself but i find the slight elevation useful.
 
skogstokig said:
…some will say the pop break has no value in itself.
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It has negative value. Some of the stroke’s power is wasted by shooting down into the table surface, and more is wasted by launching the CB into the air off the head ball (unless you time the hop perfectly for the distance).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It has negative value. Some of the stroke’s power is wasted by shooting down into the table surface, and more is wasted by launching the CB into the air off the head ball (unless you time the hop perfectly for the distance).

pj
chgo
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But-
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To Patrick:
Hop have a lot of value. Controlling the cueball. When cueball is hit so hard it will be airborne often. Better let cueball do it controlled way always than not jumping half of time.. Show me one good pro breaker whos cueball is not hopping.
 
I've changed my break lately . I'm breaking from the top rail between the middle diamond and the next one over on the right on a 8ft table. I'm hitting the first ball head on and have mostly getting the cue ball jumping straight up and staying near the middle of the table when playing 8ball. It seems to be working for me.
 
Poolmanis said:
Hop have a lot of value. Controlling the cueball. When cueball is hit so hard it will be airborne often.
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It will be less airborne with a level-as-possible cue.

Poolmanis said:
Better let cueball do it controlled way always than not jumping half of time.
Click to expand...
A level-as-possible cue also improves consistency.

Poolmanis said:
Show me one good pro breaker whos cueball is not hopping.
Click to expand...
The CB hops on almost every shot for everybody, not just pros breaking - it's unavoidable because the cue is always at least a little elevated.

The important question is how much hop? Less is more.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It will be less airborne with a level-as-possible cue.


A level-as-possible cue also improves consistency.


The CB hops on almost every shot for everybody, not just pros breaking - it's unavoidable because the cue is always at least a little elevated.

The important question is how much hop? Less is more.

pj
chgo
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Hopping the cueball could have some advantages though. For example, it should make it *slightly* less likely that the cue will get kicked into a pocket. Think about it: when you break, the balls immediately start flying around the table; any of those balls could carom into the cue and kick it into the pocket. If the cueball is airborne for that first second or so after the break, then its not in the path of any of those moving object balls and it can't get kicked into the pocket.
 
something_pool said:
Hopping the cueball could have some advantages though. For example, it should make it *slightly* less likely that the cue will get kicked into a pocket. Think about it: when you break, the balls immediately start flying around the table; any of those balls could carom into the cue and kick it into the pocket. If the cueball is airborne for that first second or so after the break, then its not in the path of any of those moving object balls and it can't get kicked into the pocket.
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So less power and less control/consistency for slightly less risk of a fluke scratch. I know what I choose.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
So less power and less control/consistency for slightly less risk of a fluke scratch. I know what I choose.

pj
chgo
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and less chance to make balls also!
I always liked controlled break more. Now i try learn break HARD and control. Just need to put a lot of work to practice it. I used my player before because i could break good with it too and it have good control(but when competing vs pros it is not enough).
Now i have new break cue and spending some time to gain control over more power(and I try get more power too).
I saw Makkonen win 8-ball Finnish Champs about month ago or so. He broke dry zero times whole weekend. When he break balls you could think roof just fell down. It is so loud. His opponents just fear his break and get uncertain of theirs and after 1 dry they try soft and other crap that just fail too often.
With alternate breaks noone can compete him when he break like that. He just run out (almost) all his breaks and never dry.
Also extra power will bring hop cueball further back and it will prevent scratching to side pockets if he slightly miss hit head ball. So lower speed break that miss hit arc is normally towards side pockets as we all well know.

I just say if player want to have powerful break... cueball will hop and player need to gain control to that hop.
If you try minimize hop break will come inconsistent and weak. Only time when i see good player keep cueball with minimum hop is when they fail timing of break badly or they use draw break to end rail and back.

Here is semifinal and final(starting around 59 min mark). You really can´t see power from video so good as being there but when you compare that even opponent hard breaks it is like night and day difference.
 
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TrxR said:
I've changed my break lately . I'm breaking from the top rail between the middle diamond and the next one over on the right on a 8ft table. I'm hitting the first ball head on and have mostly getting the cue ball jumping straight up and staying near the middle of the table when playing 8ball. It seems to be working for me.
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We call that a "perfect pop-n-stop". It's what I try to do every time I break down the middle, which I only attempt with a perfectly tight rack. On most tables I get to play on I'm stuck using the 2nd ball break.
 
Submerge said:
I'm watching a lot of pro matches. They always lineup/aim with the tip of the cue intersecting the cloth and the ball (very low). Then the cue tip comes up as they stroke and the cue ball usually hops a couple inches after contacting the ball at the point of the rack. Sometimes it appears to have some top spin, other times some back spin, other times no spin.

I've been told that the cue ball is actually hit downward and it actually flies across the table slightly off the cloth. It rebounds upward because it's hitting the first ball slightly above center line.

Sometimes it happens on my breaks but would to know exactly what the physics are so I can focus on this when stroking a break shot.

BTW, the pros usually start ball address with the tip intersecting the ball and cloth for all shots where there is room. I think this it to firmly identify the exact center of the cue ball....

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Put a quarter a few inches in front of the CB when you break. The CB will jump clean over the quarter. I think getting a "pop" on break happens when you hit the head ball and the slate at around the same time. You go off the table and lose control of the CB if it hits the OB too high or bounces off the slate before the OB ball and skims off the top of the ball when coming up off the bounce. The break is probably the one pool shot where timing is most important.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It has negative value. Some of the stroke’s power is wasted by shooting down into the table surface, and more is wasted by launching the CB into the air off the head ball (unless you time the hop perfectly for the distance).

pj
chgo
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I won't argue the value of it but I like that it lets me let my stroke out a bit more and the CB is much easier (for me) to control after break if it squats in place. You can almost get it to center table with a nice pop and a slightly elevated center ball stroke. You're correct, less is more and the more level you get the cue, the better.
 
boogieman said:
You can almost get it to center table with a nice pop and a slightly elevated center ball stroke.
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You don't need any elevation for that - a sliding cueball with no follow or draw that hits the head ball full will rebound back toward center table (because the mass of the rack is 15 times that of the CB).

pj
chgo
 
Not sure of the relevance but this discussion reminded me of my days spent skipping rocks across any pond stream or even mud puddles.🤷
 
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