cue case building?
- Thread starter Trent
- Start date
Get volumes 1,2 and 3 of "The Art Of Making Leather Cases" - these can be purchased through Tandy Leather Factory (the have a web site, too). VERY good books, and cover a variety of construction techniques. Although, no cue case plans through - you have to create your own design.
They sell leather, tools, hardware, and nearly everything else you need to make a case. Leather runs anywhere from $4 to $9 a square foot, depending on what thickness, style, tanning process, etc... A side (basically 1/2 a cow) will run about 22-25 sq feet. A side will easily make 2 cases, more if you cut it efficiently. You will have to buy a whole side, at they will not cut to a specific amount. You can buy bends, bellies, or double shoulders, but they will typically cost more because they are special cuts, for specific uses.
You probably want to hand stitich it, if you're only making one case. An a industrial sewing machine will run $500 or more, used. Don't be fooled by home sewing machines that can sew leather. These machine WILL NOT sew through heavy leather.
I have a blog I started (http://nittanyleather.blogspot.com/), but haven't updated lately (something I should do soon!) - but you can get an idea of what it takes to make a case. Its not a tell-all book on how-to-make-a-case-step-by-step, but might give you some ideas.
Have fun... post pics when you're done with it.
Brian
www.nittanyleather.com
They sell leather, tools, hardware, and nearly everything else you need to make a case. Leather runs anywhere from $4 to $9 a square foot, depending on what thickness, style, tanning process, etc... A side (basically 1/2 a cow) will run about 22-25 sq feet. A side will easily make 2 cases, more if you cut it efficiently. You will have to buy a whole side, at they will not cut to a specific amount. You can buy bends, bellies, or double shoulders, but they will typically cost more because they are special cuts, for specific uses.
You probably want to hand stitich it, if you're only making one case. An a industrial sewing machine will run $500 or more, used. Don't be fooled by home sewing machines that can sew leather. These machine WILL NOT sew through heavy leather.
I have a blog I started (http://nittanyleather.blogspot.com/), but haven't updated lately (something I should do soon!) - but you can get an idea of what it takes to make a case. Its not a tell-all book on how-to-make-a-case-step-by-step, but might give you some ideas.
Have fun... post pics when you're done with it.
Brian
www.nittanyleather.com
Trent, check out this site http://www.bighousedaddy.com/pool_cue_case_pattern.htm I believe the cost $14.99.
Also http://www.leatherworker.net/forum/ or http://leatherworker.net/
Rangercap is right about these Books:
"Get volumes 1,2 and 3 of "The Art Of Making Leather Cases" -
A lot of informations and Drawings.
I got those books [which I might be selling at a later date]
Rangercap - Nice Blog
Nice blog Brian. I am jealous of your Tippman. We have our own monster for sewing handles but it ain't no Boss
Pretty nice set up you have going there.
I like the idea of showing how the case is made and all the work that goes into them.
Maybe that'll be my next blog project.
You should stop by on forums at www.leatherworker.net - me, and Rusty, and Jack Justis and a few others are there. I think it's not a bad idea to have a place to talk shop like the cue makers have.
There are no plans anywhere on how to build a tube style case.
This is the basic case:
Plumbing tubes for the butt, electrical tubes for the shaft. Sew a liner like a sock with open ends and thread it through the tubes and secure at both ends. Bond all the tubes together to form one unit and wrap your leather around it.
Close the loop. You can close the loop with a single seam that is either back to back - meaning that the back of the material is facing each other - this makes a teardrop shape and is easiest to do. This is what is used on the envelop style cases.
Or you can close the loop with a seam that is back to front and layered meaning that the back of the leather is facing the front of the leather on the other side. This type of seam is most commonly riveted, hand sewn, or laced. This is what is used on most tube style cases, Flowers, Justis, Murnak, JB Cases, etc...
Lastly you can close the seam by butting the ends of the leather end to end making a flat surface. Most commonly this is laced. This is not used so much on cue cases as it is very time consuming and difficult to lace properly in a confined area. You can find examples of it on JB Cases, www.jbcases.com/doc.html www.jbcases.com/hotrod.html
We do a sort of puzzle type variation where the leather is skived so that the two ends interlock. This makes the seam lay down even on a curve.
There are several variations of these three ways to close a case but these are the most common.
Lastly you can close the loop by simply gluing the leather end to end and making a single line seam. This is found on GTF Cases, Fellini and so on. It's George does a sewn version of this that is like the teardrop above with a very close fitting.
Next you want to consider your cap and how you want to make it. There are three main ways to do this - the flap, the oversized cap and the flush cap. The flap is the easiest and found on most envelope cases. It's basically just a retainer to keep the cues in while not keeping derbis and moisture out. Very few people do a fitted flap that is flush to the case. Here is an example of a fitted flap that was developed based off of a fly fishing tool case that was done by Arne Mason, www.jbcases.com/shorty.html
The oversized cap is essentially just that - a cap in the same shape as the body and made to fit over the end. This can be done in an infinite number of ways really and what is important here is how well it fits. Poorly done ones are very loose and well done ones have a nice and snug fit. It can be attached as a hanging cap or as a flip top. If one elects to put a handle on the top then you should be aware of the stress placed on the latch and fittings and build to alleviate that stress.
The flush cap is a flip top cap that is flush with the body. Most commonly this type of cap is secured with a zipper However it can be done like this www.jbcases.com/zack.html
Handles can be secured to the body prior to closing the loop. You should build these to last forever as they are hard to fix if the attached parts should break. Handles should be extremely comfortable as when they are not they become very uncomfortable in a matter of seconds when carrying the case.
Balance - your handles will NOT be in the direct center of the case. Most people prefer to put their cues in bumper down which means that the majority of weight is at the bottom of the case. When your case is empty it should tip slightly forward so that when cues are in it then it will balance. Of course this can vary with particular designs but it's essentially true across the board.
Bottoms: Here you have two basic choices, use wood piece to nail to or hand sew the bottom closed with leather. Hand sewing is more time consuming and should last forever when you are done. Using a wood piece takes time to fit properly but can be very solid when done correctly.
The best advice I can give you is to experiment section by section. In my shop we do a lot of different methods and anytime we want to try something new we make a model of just that section and test it. In this way we don't build the whole case only to find out that our theory or measurements are off. Write down EVERYTHING and make patterns once you have it where you want it. This allows you build a library that you can access and modify anytime.
Now, the ways to build a cue case are virtually unlimited. My basic philosophy is to wrap layers of protection around the cue and make it easy to use. So I have a lot of ways to build cases that fail one or both of those tests. I have experimented with a lot of non-traditional methods that are cool and may make their way into our offerings. The thing to remember though is that people are creatures of habit and you will have a hard time "retraining" them to use a cue case in ways that are not easy and familiar.
That's all for now.
This is the basic case:
Plumbing tubes for the butt, electrical tubes for the shaft. Sew a liner like a sock with open ends and thread it through the tubes and secure at both ends. Bond all the tubes together to form one unit and wrap your leather around it.
Close the loop. You can close the loop with a single seam that is either back to back - meaning that the back of the material is facing each other - this makes a teardrop shape and is easiest to do. This is what is used on the envelop style cases.
Or you can close the loop with a seam that is back to front and layered meaning that the back of the leather is facing the front of the leather on the other side. This type of seam is most commonly riveted, hand sewn, or laced. This is what is used on most tube style cases, Flowers, Justis, Murnak, JB Cases, etc...
Lastly you can close the seam by butting the ends of the leather end to end making a flat surface. Most commonly this is laced. This is not used so much on cue cases as it is very time consuming and difficult to lace properly in a confined area. You can find examples of it on JB Cases, www.jbcases.com/doc.html www.jbcases.com/hotrod.html
We do a sort of puzzle type variation where the leather is skived so that the two ends interlock. This makes the seam lay down even on a curve.
There are several variations of these three ways to close a case but these are the most common.
Lastly you can close the loop by simply gluing the leather end to end and making a single line seam. This is found on GTF Cases, Fellini and so on. It's George does a sewn version of this that is like the teardrop above with a very close fitting.
Next you want to consider your cap and how you want to make it. There are three main ways to do this - the flap, the oversized cap and the flush cap. The flap is the easiest and found on most envelope cases. It's basically just a retainer to keep the cues in while not keeping derbis and moisture out. Very few people do a fitted flap that is flush to the case. Here is an example of a fitted flap that was developed based off of a fly fishing tool case that was done by Arne Mason, www.jbcases.com/shorty.html
The oversized cap is essentially just that - a cap in the same shape as the body and made to fit over the end. This can be done in an infinite number of ways really and what is important here is how well it fits. Poorly done ones are very loose and well done ones have a nice and snug fit. It can be attached as a hanging cap or as a flip top. If one elects to put a handle on the top then you should be aware of the stress placed on the latch and fittings and build to alleviate that stress.
The flush cap is a flip top cap that is flush with the body. Most commonly this type of cap is secured with a zipper However it can be done like this www.jbcases.com/zack.html
Handles can be secured to the body prior to closing the loop. You should build these to last forever as they are hard to fix if the attached parts should break. Handles should be extremely comfortable as when they are not they become very uncomfortable in a matter of seconds when carrying the case.
Balance - your handles will NOT be in the direct center of the case. Most people prefer to put their cues in bumper down which means that the majority of weight is at the bottom of the case. When your case is empty it should tip slightly forward so that when cues are in it then it will balance. Of course this can vary with particular designs but it's essentially true across the board.
Bottoms: Here you have two basic choices, use wood piece to nail to or hand sew the bottom closed with leather. Hand sewing is more time consuming and should last forever when you are done. Using a wood piece takes time to fit properly but can be very solid when done correctly.
The best advice I can give you is to experiment section by section. In my shop we do a lot of different methods and anytime we want to try something new we make a model of just that section and test it. In this way we don't build the whole case only to find out that our theory or measurements are off. Write down EVERYTHING and make patterns once you have it where you want it. This allows you build a library that you can access and modify anytime.
Now, the ways to build a cue case are virtually unlimited. My basic philosophy is to wrap layers of protection around the cue and make it easy to use. So I have a lot of ways to build cases that fail one or both of those tests. I have experimented with a lot of non-traditional methods that are cool and may make their way into our offerings. The thing to remember though is that people are creatures of habit and you will have a hard time "retraining" them to use a cue case in ways that are not easy and familiar.
That's all for now.
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Brian's cases are da nuts. Simple, sleek execution. Great lines. Pretty hardware....you can't go wrong, really.
JB Cases, let me say that was very honor of you for sharing the above information. I was taught Leathercraft back in the '70, by my brother who start leathercraft in 1951.
If player think cuemaking is costly. Wait still wantabe cue case builder see what the cost for his first case will cost.
If player think cuemaking is costly. Wait still wantabe cue case builder see what the cost for his first case will cost.
crazy as this sounds, you might check out sailing suppliers for a sturdy hand awl for the stitching. Sailcloth is tough stuff, hard to penetrate by typical sewing machines. So, awls with a selection of needles are available.
I haven't sailed in years, but a mail order company called "west marine" might be a good place to begin.
I haven't sailed in years, but a mail order company called "west marine" might be a good place to begin.
That's true. I once had a customer question my pricing and then he visited our shop and saw how much work really goes into each case we do and his next question was how come I charge so little.
Still though, on whole case making is easier and less expensive than cue making. Primarily because it's low tech and well done pieces can be achieved with little more than a knife, an awl, and a lot of elbow grease.
Actually you don't even need to sew it to come up with a nice case. A good example is the cases that Steve Price in Florida does. On most of his cases everything is done with rivets and not that many of them.
But like cue making there is always more material to buy, more tools, more to study. I have about $10,000 worth of leather in stock - some of it may never get used but I bought it because it's a good piece that I may not come across again.
It's a lifelong bug with me and I guess I would have to consider myself to be a professional cue case maker at this point. I think that beginners will underestimate the time they need to do it right. I have seen a lot of beginner cases and most of them lack the polish of a seasoned maker. That's to be expected but the devil is in the details.
And even now I am still learning new things and new ways to do things.
To everyone reading this I would like to make one request. Please take the time to really study what makes a good case when you are considering a nice case. If decoration is your thing then study what the real masters of leather carving do and then you will have a much better appreciation for the art. Pay attention to how the handles and straps are done, look at the stitch lines, are they straight and tight, can the cue rub up against any metal or hard surface? Learn what quality is in a cue case and demand it. That way it pushes new and established case makers to really do a good job and it's a win for everyone. If you as consumers, accept mediocre work and pay high prices for it then the work will never get better.
And case makers, make every case as if a $10,000 cue were going in it and you will have to pay for that cue if it get's the tiniest scratch on it while in your case.
Case making 101 is concluded for today.
good thread.....for the bottom wood pc pick something that is straight wood and not layered. like poplar. that way when u put your tiny nails thru it wont split apart.
other than that the other guys have u covered.
other than that the other guys have u covered.
im currently looking into different tubes for the inside....any reccomendations..
Im getting a call back tomorrow and i hope they will send me some samples but what else is there to use? i tried the clear vinyl tubing and i couldnt find any that had thin enough walls to make the case lighter.
Im getting a call back tomorrow and i hope they will send me some samples but what else is there to use? i tried the clear vinyl tubing and i couldnt find any that had thin enough walls to make the case lighter.
What is the point of making the case lighter if the structural integrity is compromised?
I can use lightweight tubes as well that I can pinch shut with my fingers. That will save a pound and give the user a completely FALSE sense of security. Not to mention that these kind of tubes will bend, crack, and buckle and then not return to their original shape.
In the past i have experimented with flexible tubing, and it's good for making separated cavities but not for any real measure of protection.
I have thought about making a case that is just the exterior shell with the interior comprised only of fabric and foam. No plastic tube(s). This will make for a very light case in the shape of a traditional tube case. But again the protective factor won't really be much better than a soft case.
Right now I am getting quotes on Carbon Fiber tubes. Those are looking to cost me around $20-$25 EACH at this point with the quantity I am looking to buy. Carbon fiber tubes are made by rolling layers of carbon fiber fabric onto a steel mandrel - then wrapping the layers in saran wrap and baking it so that they bond and don't expand. This is why carbon fiber is so strong and light and expensive.
Now I am SURE that there are some customers who wouldn't mind paying an extra $80-$150 per case for a lighter case that is stronger but how many are there?
My principle here is that if it looks like a hard case then it better act like one. I don't want the liability that I feel comes with making a case that appears to be protective against a moderate amount of impact and pressure and then in fact, isn't.
If one of you new case makers does happen to figure out a way to defy physics and make a lightweight and also strong hard case without great expense then GREAT - I guarantee you that if your solution is better I will be switching to it.
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The way to not have the wood split is to drill the holes first. And use barbed nails if you can get them.
Liability?
What responsibility do you think that the case maker has to the user of the case?
I have always maintained a policy that if a cue was damaged while in one of my cases under normal use then I would pay for the repair or replace the cue.
I had a collector tell me the other day that a dealer case made by the Long Chan cue case factory and sold by J&J scratched his Gina cue "all to hell". This isn't the first such story I have heard along similar lines.
So who bears responsibility when such things happen? Or do you as consumers not really care what happens to your cue while it's riding around in the case?
Do you think that the dealer and maker should pay for repairs/replacements in such situations?
I have had two situations in 18 years where a cue was damaged while in an Instroke case. In one some how there was a hard knot in the liner and it caused small scratches on the butt cap. We paid for a refinish. In the other the shafts had a very soft finish on them and by forcing them in the case the the shafts developed a small ring where the finish was depressed. I didn't feel that this was neccesarily our fault but I paid for the shafts to be refinished anyway.
I just often wonder how it goes. Your cue develops a buzz, it gets dinged up here and there, develops scratches or a dulled finish and no one thinks to check the case. I find it incredible actually that people with expensive cues routinely stuff them into holes with no idea what is in that hole.
What responsibility do you think that the case maker has to the user of the case?
I have always maintained a policy that if a cue was damaged while in one of my cases under normal use then I would pay for the repair or replace the cue.
I had a collector tell me the other day that a dealer case made by the Long Chan cue case factory and sold by J&J scratched his Gina cue "all to hell". This isn't the first such story I have heard along similar lines.
So who bears responsibility when such things happen? Or do you as consumers not really care what happens to your cue while it's riding around in the case?
Do you think that the dealer and maker should pay for repairs/replacements in such situations?
I have had two situations in 18 years where a cue was damaged while in an Instroke case. In one some how there was a hard knot in the liner and it caused small scratches on the butt cap. We paid for a refinish. In the other the shafts had a very soft finish on them and by forcing them in the case the the shafts developed a small ring where the finish was depressed. I didn't feel that this was neccesarily our fault but I paid for the shafts to be refinished anyway.
I just often wonder how it goes. Your cue develops a buzz, it gets dinged up here and there, develops scratches or a dulled finish and no one thinks to check the case. I find it incredible actually that people with expensive cues routinely stuff them into holes with no idea what is in that hole.
Studying cases is one key. Whether an archery Quiver, A Rifle Scabbard, along with other cases, or different pouches construction.
But like other hobbies or business. What to do with the spare parts and scrap leathers??
And then there the jigs and molds to make/design.
The sad part instead of building a very simple case [or repair a broken or torn case]. They want to attempt a JB Case, Rangercap, Justin, or others. Which I give them all the lucky. Then come the "Will you make soandso a wallet, purse, belt, and so fore!! Yes! Good Luck.
Wait still the wife yell "What This doing in the Ref." When you casing!
A few more Leather crafter site:
http://www.iilg.org/
http://www.leathercraftersjournal.com/
http://www.pslac.org/table_index_rawhide.htm
But like other hobbies or business. What to do with the spare parts and scrap leathers??
And then there the jigs and molds to make/design.
The sad part instead of building a very simple case [or repair a broken or torn case]. They want to attempt a JB Case, Rangercap, Justin, or others. Which I give them all the lucky. Then come the "Will you make soandso a wallet, purse, belt, and so fore!! Yes! Good Luck.
Wait still the wife yell "What This doing in the Ref." When you casing!
A few more Leather crafter site:
http://www.iilg.org/
http://www.leathercraftersjournal.com/
http://www.pslac.org/table_index_rawhide.htm
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^^^ Agree with studying other people's work. Can;t go wrong here...
There are enough pictures of cases out there, that if you can simply scale one element, like a zipper or a buckle, you can pretty much pull off everything you need prior to cutting leather. I made countless cardstock mock ups before cutting any leather. It also helped to put my patterns into AutoCAD, and plot them full size for testing.
Also - it pays to pay attention to what others craftsmen, not just leather workers, do to make things easier. For instance - instead of purchasing a clicker press(still on my wish list) to punch holes, I developed a jig based upon one of those plastic jigs used to drill evenly spaced holes in kitchen cabinets. It works like a champ and only cost me about $15. It certainly takes a little longer, but I won't loose any fingers in the process.
One other thing - get into repairing cases - much like cue building. I have a good following locally because people need a strap replaced, or have a bottom of a case that blew out. You'd be amazed how easy they are to put together once you can figure out how they are build. And, like cue building, you'll learn what works and what doesn't. I bet your town doesn't have a case repairman!
As for Leather Crafters Journal - its a good source for ideas for leather work - well worth the subscription.
Brian
www.nittanyleather.com
There are enough pictures of cases out there, that if you can simply scale one element, like a zipper or a buckle, you can pretty much pull off everything you need prior to cutting leather. I made countless cardstock mock ups before cutting any leather. It also helped to put my patterns into AutoCAD, and plot them full size for testing.
Also - it pays to pay attention to what others craftsmen, not just leather workers, do to make things easier. For instance - instead of purchasing a clicker press(still on my wish list) to punch holes, I developed a jig based upon one of those plastic jigs used to drill evenly spaced holes in kitchen cabinets. It works like a champ and only cost me about $15. It certainly takes a little longer, but I won't loose any fingers in the process.
One other thing - get into repairing cases - much like cue building. I have a good following locally because people need a strap replaced, or have a bottom of a case that blew out. You'd be amazed how easy they are to put together once you can figure out how they are build. And, like cue building, you'll learn what works and what doesn't. I bet your town doesn't have a case repairman!
As for Leather Crafters Journal - its a good source for ideas for leather work - well worth the subscription.
Brian
www.nittanyleather.com
Very True, about the repair part.
As for Leather Crafters Journal - its a good source for ideas for leather work - well worth the subscription.
Before " Leather Crafters Journal" there were "The Craftsman Magazine" in the Sixty, "The Leather Craftman" in the seventy, then "Make it with Leather" Magazine in the Eighty.
Rangercap, Have you thought about writting an article or articles about cue case for " Leather Crafters Journal"
I fadly remember one of those magazine might had an article in it.
As for Leather Crafters Journal - its a good source for ideas for leather work - well worth the subscription.
Before " Leather Crafters Journal" there were "The Craftsman Magazine" in the Sixty, "The Leather Craftman" in the seventy, then "Make it with Leather" Magazine in the Eighty.
Rangercap, Have you thought about writting an article or articles about cue case for " Leather Crafters Journal"
I fadly remember one of those magazine might had an article in it.
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