Cue Design Theft?

JoeyInCali said:

Joey,
This cue was made for me and is a copy of a cue that is owned by Mark. The real photos can be seen here:

http://www.classiccues.com/graphics/cues/569_fore_hi.jpg
http://www.classiccues.com/graphics/cues/569_butt_hi.jpg

We added the rings for the look, but the basis of the cue is here. I would make another, and another if I felt like it with maybe a few changes here and there. Its a classic look that no less than 6 cuemakers, and probably at least 12, making cues today have done similar cues with the staggered diamond / dot Bushka pattern.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
So are you saying that all 6 point cues are going to be SW "copies"? BTW where is the cue that I made the Skip from? You know, since its an exact copy and all...

Joe

No just the ones that look like south wests you idiot! You ought to be ashamed of yourself, you are a bad boy. I know you are gonna get coal in from Santa.
 
classiccues said:
Joey,
This cue was made for me and is a copy of a cue that is owned by Mark. The real photos can be seen here:

http://www.classiccues.com/graphics/cues/569_fore_hi.jpg
http://www.classiccues.com/graphics/cues/569_butt_hi.jpg

We added the rings for the look, but the basis of the cue is here. I would make another, and another if I felt like it with maybe a few changes here and there. Its a classic look that no less than 6 cuemakers, and probably at least 12, making cues today have done similar cues with the staggered diamond / dot Bushka pattern.

Joe
you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
 
classiccues said:
Man, are you a clown. The Schick and the Wayne link didn't work but this one did? Oh man you are chicken sh*t to say anything bad about anyone with a name.

Joe (--doesn't need to prove his point any further
at least he aint askin cue makers to whore themselfs out to make cues that are other craftsmens designs. and he may be a clown but you are the village asshole. people laugh at him, but you got the smell of sh*t with you all the time.
 
committeemember said:
No just the ones that look like south wests you idiot! You ought to be ashamed of yourself, you are a bad boy. I know you are gonna get coal in from Santa.

Well then we don't have a problem, since this doesn't look like a SW then.

Different rings, different back end, Orange / yellow veneers, nothing SW has done. So there is no problem.

Joe
 
committeemember said:
you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

You ought to sign your name... amazing how this is the only thread you come in on, and start the day I tell Jim its amazing how he doesn't have any support...

Joe
 
classiccues said:
Well then we don't have a problem, since this doesn't look like a SW then.

Different rings, different back end, Orange / yellow veneers, nothing SW has done. So there is no problem.

Joe
you are an idiot.
 
classiccues said:
You ought to sign your name... amazing how this is the only thread you come in on, and start the day I tell Jim its amazing how he doesn't have any support...

Joe
you ought not sign your name because you are such an idiot. hell think about this that for the next hundred years or forever for that matter people are gonna be able to read about what a freakin idiot you are. your grandkids will be able to look up what an ignorant asshole grampa was and have a good laugh. if you really don't think that cue you had made looks like a southwest you are an absolute moron. i dont even know this guy jimbo just like i dont know you. neither of you are very smart in my opinion. but you put the evidence of your idiocy on a web site for everybody to see so you get the award.
 
Asides from the 6 hi-lo point configuration, there is nothing on the Skip that's copied from any SW. No trademark SW rings, no uneven points/veneers (lol), no 3/8-11 pin, no irish linen wrap.

As far as "inspired" cues go, Skip's inspiration is very abstract indeed.

-Roger
 
committeemember said:
you are an idiot.

I will ask one more time.. I asked you to show me the cue I copied. You called it an exact copy and I want to see the cue I copied. You are the idiot, you make a statement you had no chance of backing up.

Joe
 
buddha162 said:
Asides from the 6 hi-lo point configuration, there is nothing on the Skip that's copied from any SW. No trademark SW rings, no uneven points/veneers (lol), no 3/8-11 pin, no irish linen wrap.

As far as "inspired" cues go, Skip's inspiration is very abstract indeed.

-Roger

This is exactly true.

Now I ask one more time.. what % of design elements make up cue theft? Since Jimbo likes to vary this percentage depending upon who made the cue, his association with that cue maker, and having to eat his words at some later date, I ask with all seriousness, what % of design elements makes cue theft? Put it out here for all to see...

Joe
 
classiccues said:
I will ask one more time.. I asked you to show me the cue I copied. You called it an exact copy and I want to see the cue I copied. You are the idiot, you make a statement you had no chance of backing up.

Joe
you are such an idiot. the design of the cue has been stolen. if i knew how to post a survey i would. but ask anyone what that cue looks like out of this list:

szamboti
scruggs
weston
lambros
southwest
mottey
tascarella
josswest

and see what they say idiot. the cue has the look of the southwest whether you made an exact copy or just stole the look of it all. nobody in there right mind would pick any other name on that list than southwest because the cue design is southwest and there are no ifs ands or buts about it. whats really sad is that the freakin cue maker makes it that way for an idiot like you. a talented cue maker sellin out his dignity for a dealer, what a shame.
 
classiccues said:
Again.. you said you posted links to exact copies, I am saying you didn't.

And I said if you don't see that those are the same design then you are either blind or clueless when it comes to cue designs. I suspect you can see what I'm talking about yet you are to proud to admit it, so stick to your story Joe it makes you look very intelligent.

You initially called one of the cues a 30th anniversary, and it isn't.

I already admitted I was wrong and pointed out that we were not talking about naming cue designs, just comparing them. I can tell that this is your only part of the argument you think you can use to discredit me even though it has very little to do with the argument. When it's all you have keep using it even though it's already been dismissed.

You also still won't go after anyone but Phillippi. Showing further more that you leave the big guys, and your friends (may not be in the same category) alone.

I have gone after anyone who has stolen a design, Thomas Wayne being one of them with his SW knockoffs, as well as many production Asian makers and Coker, how you claim that I am ignoring some people is still nonsense but you keep trying to use it. I have told you many times show me the cue and the copy and I will speak on it. You also claim I am afraid of big names yet I've spoken out against Mottey several times and IMO he is one of the top makers working now, your lies make no sense and don't add up.

Thus proving my point. The fact is these cues are not the same as your link provided and the best that can be said about the Phillippi's is that they are Gina inspired.

That is not the best that can be said, you obviously have no eye for what a design entails and you don't put any credence behind the work that is involved in coming up with a look and being an original. Most people can tell these are copies, many would think the same person made them, I've already challenged you to ask your wife or coworker, anyone not involved with cues and get their opinion, you won't.

Joe (---knows Jimbo will never say anything bad about cuemakers he will eventually be facing at some show or some other function

LOL you are a clown Joe, you can't have it both ways. You make claims that I don't go after big names, I point out Mottey and Phillippi are big names, you claim I won't go after people I'll face both Mottey and Phillippi go to VF were I've seen and talked to them many times. The fact is the guys you claim I am afraid to face don't go to the shows, I won't see Ernie or TW at VF this year I will see Phillippi and Mottey, your wrong once more Joe (no surprise). Try a new angle maybe you should go back to the 30th anniversary thing, it has nothing to do with the debate. But at least you got that one right after you took a few days to research it.
 
committeemember said:
you are such an idiot. the design of the cue has been stolen. if i knew how to post a survey i would. but ask anyone what that cue looks like out of this list:

szamboti
scruggs
weston
lambros
southwest
mottey
tascarella
josswest

and see what they say idiot. the cue has the look of the southwest whether you made an exact copy or just stole the look of it all. nobody in there right mind would pick any other name on that list than southwest because the cue design is southwest and there are no ifs ands or buts about it. whats really sad is that the freakin cue maker makes it that way for an idiot like you. a talented cue maker sellin out his dignity for a dealer, what a shame.

Jeez.. you post a list of cuemakers that make 4 point cues with the exception of two. Why don't you make the list with Coker, South West, Cousins, Kersenbrock.. duh...

Joe (--still waiting for the exact copy
 
JimBo said:
>>And I said if you don't see that those are the same design then you are either blind or clueless when it comes to cue designs. I suspect you can see what I'm talking about yet you are to proud to admit it, so stick to your story Joe it makes you look very intelligent.<<

But you called them copies and continue to call them copies when they are not. Here: copy - An imitation or reproduction of an original; a duplicate: a copy of a painting; made two copies of the letter. Are the cues duplicates? Are they identical? No they are not. They are still inspired.. thats it.

>>I have gone after anyone who has stolen a design, Thomas Wayne being one of them with his SW knockoffs, as well as many production Asian makers and Coker, how you claim that I am ignoring some people is still nonsense but you keep trying to use it.<<

This is the first time in the thread you used Waynes name in an accusation of a knockoff.. woohoo

>>I have told you many times show me the cue and the copy and I will speak on it. You also claim I am afraid of big names yet I've spoken out against Mottey several times and IMO he is one of the top makers working now, your lies make no sense and don't add up.<<

One guy in a pool of 300. Also you are not exactly friends with Paul either. But I know you hung and bought cues from Schick. But you convienently forget that link all the time.

>>That is not the best that can be said, you obviously have no eye for what a design entails and you don't put any credence behind the work that is involved in coming up with a look and being an original.<<

And I have posted the definition of copy and albeit the look is the same, they are not copies.

>>you are a clown Joe, you can't have it both ways. You make claims that I don't go after big names, I point out Mottey and Phillippi are big names, you claim I won't go after people I'll face both Mottey and Phillippi go to VF were I've seen and talked to them many times. <<

Phillippi is not that big a name. You and I both know that. But before this thread, sure you went to Mottey. But the year the feathers copy came out, and you saw it, damn I don't remember seeing you get into Pauls face. I must have missed that part. BTW its you that cannot have it both ways, like I said before, copying is copying, an single inlay, a 4 piece inlay, a whole cue. You cannot dictate that some copying is ok, and some isn't. So try and be more decisive, I know its hard for you.

>>The fact is the guys you claim I am afraid to face don't go to the shows, I won't see Ernie or TW at VF this year I will see Phillippi and Mottey, your wrong once more Joe (no surprise). Try a new angle maybe you should go back to the 30th anniversary thing, it has nothing to do with the debate. But at least you got that one right after you took a few days to research it.<<

I believe you will see them, and I believe this thread won't even be mentioned. Unless its by one of them. It took me all of a few seconds on the 30th anniversary because unlike you, I have seen one. So you can keep padding the research thing, but that won't fly. But maybe in your spare time you can look up words like copy, duplicate, look-alike, close but no cigar.. it will give you a better understanding of what you are trying to say.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
Jeez.. you post a list of cuemakers that make 4 point cues with the exception of two. Why don't you make the list with Coker, South West, Cousins, Kersenbrock.. duh...

Joe (--still waiting for the exact copy

because all of them except the maker (southwest) and kersenbrock, the other cue makers took the look from southwest you moron, so of course they are gonna look similar. that's my point idiot. you sure aint the sharp one in the family are ya! what a freakin dummy you are.
 
cue theft

committeemember said:
because all of them except the maker (southwest) and kersenbrock, the other cue makers took the look from southwest you moron, so of course they are gonna look similar. that's my point idiot. you sure aint the sharp one in the family are ya! what a freakin dummy you are.


Southwests are copies of Kersernbrocks.. It was Davids design that Jerry copied.. Look in the blue book under Davids biography..

Barry Szambotis are copies of Gus Szambotis..It was his dad who was the original artist not him..
 
spanky981 said:
Southwests are copies of Kersernbrocks.. It was Davids design that Jerry copied.. Look in the blue book under Davids biography..

Barry Szambotis are copies of Gus Szambotis..It was his dad who was the original artist not him..
thanks for the revisionist history lesson, but no thanks. try learning the truth before spreading bullshit like this. the design was developed together. nothing was stolen and the cue was designed by the two and there was a business relationship. the southwest design is a compendium. get it? or do i need to use smaller words? heres the exact quote from the bb so you can think about your error - early southwest cues are almost identical to the cues that david and jerry made at kersenbrock cue service- do you understand the quote?
 
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