Cue-Maker Reviews (New Cues)

Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Even though this is a new thread, let me state that the below is a copy of my post today in the F/S section re: John Showman.
I think rather than depending on posts about bad cue-maker experiences as a way of avoiding doing business with someone,
a new section where praise can be expounded will be equally, if not more so beneficial, for anyone interested in ordering a new cue.

There's new horror stories appearing on the Forum more regularly than in the past 3 years about rude, uncooperative, dishonest cue-makers .
The saddest part is many of these stories involve episodes dating back awhile and are just now being disclosed.

Bad news spreads quickly.....good news hardly moves at all. Instead of just identifying these horrible cue-makers, how about we have
a cue-makers section...brand new one. This is just for cue-maker ratings and would be alphabetically arranged for easy viewing.
Azers can post new cues that were made by the cue-maker and comments; even cue repairs/refinish can be included.

Anyone interested in ordering a new cue can view how other recent clients of the cue-maker feel about the cue-maker's skills, fair-mindedness
and behavior. This is not a cue gallery substitute where cues purchased in the secondary market gets posted all the time. This would be just for
active cue-makers and their reputations......so you look up someone like Lee Pepper before doing business or Zinzola or John Showman.
And you'd also be able to read all the positive feedback on cue-makers too which is more important

Example: I've never read or heard any negative posts/comments about Bob Owen as a cue-maker and the photos of his new cues in the Gallery
have been nothing but superb. So if I were going to order a new cue, I'd feel so much better and confident ordering a cue from him than say
John Showman after reading this thread. But this thread will disappear in several weeks, months etc. and Showman's abysmal behavior will
become forgotten & lost unless this thread gets pushed more. However, a section for just new cue orders would preserve this information.

If we have a new section (New Cue Reviews) that just deals with only current new cue orders, or new repairs, then the customers of these cue-makers
can hopefully post honest appraisals of their new cues. This would function as a new barometer for fortifying and improving a Forum member's selection
of a cue-maker when they are prepared to order a new cue. It doesn't matter if a cue-maker had a great reputation for more than a decade or two if in
the last 2-3 years, the guy has being steadily going downhill......that's a cue-maker to avoid.

Anyway, I think rather than creating threads about recent bad cue-maker experiences that eventually just go away in due time, this new section would
become a data base that would move forward and the information arranged by cue-maker would be there for as long as the Forum Operator allowed.....
ad perpetuity if possible. This way anyone could do research so much more easily....a couple of years from now the data will be very valuable as a tool
for choosing a cue-maker because it will be organized by cue-maker, have a historical base of reviews....not just 1 or 2 reviews....and is easily retrieved.

What'ya think????????????????????????????


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This concept has worked quite well on the site where I buy/sell/trade High-end Luxury Watches ... Watchnet.com ... That community does a fine job "policing" the site and those who access it.

Good News travels as quickly as Bad in that sub-forum. I must admit, Stickys annoy me but are often "necessary evils" when we add Honor, Money & Trust to the equation.
I am in favor of your proposal, as it works somewhat like "Rep" here on AZB but is visible for all to view.

Shakespeare may have said it best: "The evil men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with the bones".
 
I agree. We have a utility within AZ to determine the quality of buyers and sellers. Heck, the gamblers are even rated. A sub forum offering product, customer service and pricing reviews for cue makers would be another valuable amenity for our community. In fact, I'd be leery of anyone who would be opposed to such a creation. The dissemination of information, good or bad, is always a good thing. Adults still retain the ability to decipher what seems truthful and what does not. (Take for example the recent Showman threads. Everyone understands that Jennifer13 was bogus and that Ken was passing along valuable info)

Our community deserves the ability to catalogue our experiences. I for one learned that John Showman will never get my business. And neither will I allow anyone I know to do business with him.
 
I like it. There has to be a way for people to rate the cuemakers, be it positive or negative. I don't like statements like so and so makes the best cues, do the best leather wrap installs, etc,, there are are a hell of a lot of good, and not so good cuemakers in the market nowadays, and with the range of the internet it should be a simple process of who in general people like and why, or why not.

I don't have the answer specifically to how this should be done, but I do have online a pretty damn good source of info about cuemakers in my cuemakers directory. If this can be of use in this venture I'm certainly willing to help. I have most cuemakers listed already, and it's open for anyone who wants to be listed that isn't, and best of all it's free. If there is some way I can help, maybe with a rating system or whatever within my published format I'm willing, just let let me know how I can help. This is all financed out of pocket with the exception of a very few infrequent donations but if someone has an Idea how to use what we already have I'm all in.
 
Here's the problem with the Forum......cues get sold and then the thread selling price is deleted so you don't know what the cue sold for and having that information helps establish a base for valuing cues. Sellers that are not trustworthy do not always get reported by their buyers and later published on the Forum either.

Cue values are very subjective and sellers, all of us, over value our cues and think the cues are worth more than what the cue might bring at a sale. But a base line is needed for cue values and the Blue Book is so out of date that it's only a guide. The stock market is reported on daily and so we can see how it's doing but cue prices are entirely different.

Five years ago, the resale market was strong but it's been anemic for several years so what's a cue worth today versus when the cue was built. At the same time, people are ordering new cues and sometimes things don't go as planned......ever hear about Lee Pepper or Tony Zinzola? And there was some episodes reported with Pruilhere cues and now Showman's rep is getting bashed....where does this begin and end.....which cue-makers are doing a good job?

Like I said, I admire John Showman's cue-making skills but I had no idea what he was like. After learning what's happened with Ken, I wouldn't do any business with him. But if I hadn't learned about Ken's experience, I would have still held Showman in regard and maybe even ordered a cue from him some day but not now. The same is true for Zinzola.....people need to know there are definitely snakes in the grass and going around barefoot will get you into trouble.

So we need a better way of identifying where these serpents are hiding in the grass.....a giant spotlight would be handy and the Forum is a great place to illuminate bad cue-makers and keep in mind the spotlight will also shine on great cue-makers as well. We can police ourselves if everyone supports the program......cue-makers have nothing to be concerned about because their focus should be on garnishing compliments and accolades from their cue customers rather than their scorn and criticism. If it isn't, then they do not have high standards of excellence for their craft and aren't the type of cue-maker I'd ever want to deal with........the cue-maker has to be committed to excellence not mediocrity.

A cue-maker review section would be a tremendous asset and tool for the Forum and the pool industry. But the notion has way too much merit...... like so many other things in life, good ideas aren't always appreciated, let alone implemented.
 
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The only issue is people are usually way more willing to give criticism than praise. So a cue maker could sell 100 cues and the only feed back is the one negative. However we wouldn't know he sold 99 other cues without complaint or what % was sold to AZ's. Has anyone read these thread? I sure wouldn't want my reputation based on this forum. Most people can't agree on the color of grass on here.
 
Some of the cue reviews I have read on this forum just aren't fair.

If you buy one cue every 3 years and you happen to get a bad one, it's not fair to think all the cues from that one maker or cue company makes bad cues.

The only way to evaluate and do a fair review is to buy 10 cues from the same maker, then rate each one.

I buy and sell a lot of production cues and some custom cues. I have seen some bad cues and I've seen a lot of good cues. So I find one bad cue out of ten.

I would never come on here and talk about that one bad cue (LOL...for the next ten years) when the same maker made 9 good cues.
 
its not so much about talking about one bad cue. its about how the cuemaker handles it. and how he treats his valued customers. and of course whether he steals your money and doenst send the goods you paid for.

lets list the cuemakers, and have their results on the list. it can be moderated so no one ruins someone that doesnt deserve it.

its done with the posters here and the cuemakers and cue sellers use that to decide on how to deal with a customer, so why cant we the forum members get the same back.
 
I do not agree with pool guy4u's post at all.

If I buy only one (1) cue from a cue-maker every decade, or even once in my lifetime, the cue-maker is not entitled to a pass on the cue I get from him. This is not a batting average game......okay the guy got 43 out of 45 cues perfect and 2 sucked.....I'd still want to read all 47 posts (45 praising the cue-maker & 2 condemning him) and make up my own mind.

Look, when I get a cue from a cue-maker, I expect it to be pristine and without any flaws unless this was revealed, discussed and "mutually" agreed to prior to the purchase. If I get one of the 2 bad cues from the aforementioned cue-maker example, I see if the cue-maker will make it right and I decide what's right, not the cue-maker or else I get a 100% refund.....there's no middle ground if the cue is flawed.

And I will mercilessly bash the SOB on the Forum if he behaved like a jerk-off. If I get my refund, I'll post that I got a bad cue from X and explain what was wrong with the cue, post photos too, but I'll acknowledge the cue-maker refunded my money or is making the cue over. However, the cue-maker never gets a pass for a bad cue even if it will be the only one of his cues I'll ever buy......the cue-maker is paid to get it right not for his "best efforts". This is a business transaction and I am not paying someone for their attempt to produce a quality cue. They should not get paid for a bad cue and people need to know about it. The same with a restaurant.....I ain't paying for a horrible meal and I'm telling everyone I know not to go there or do so at their own peril.....same applies to cue-makers.

Obviously, the condition of the cue is imperative.....don't ***** about insignificant things.....but the episodes with different cue-makers being posted on the Forum the past 12 months are hardly insignificant incidents.......those are the assholes that need to be hung in public effigy for everyone to see and read about....... In the final outcome, I can be the cue-maker's best friend but not surprisingly, I can become his worst nightmare......just be honest throughput the entire transaction and I will be more than reasonable......but don't try to screw me or you will definitely come to regret it regardless of the cost or consequences......all of which is totally avoidable if the cue-maker just does his job and remains honest with me.......the bottomline is the cue-maker determines the final outcome not me......I just make sure that just rewards are meted out.
 
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