Cue Protection - what is "enough"

JB Cases

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Alright, I usually don't start threads like these - makes me feel all EW inside.

BUT I need to know a few things about you and what you want.

I know that AZ has the most diverse group of members in any pool forum. We have rank amateurs, pros, top amateurs, cue collectors, league players, cue makers and case makers.

As a cue case maker I personally have been on a Protection First platform from the beginning, it's why I started. I probably won't step down from that platform but I do want to hear your thoughts on this. I have been told that protection doesn't matter. (seriously). I refuse to believe this but maybe it doesn't matter to most of you as much as it does to me. A lot of the emails I get are from people that respect my stance on this. My question to the group however is am I being too obsessive/compulsive about this subject?

Why am I writing this post? Well it's time that I either give up trying to push my "Protection First" agenda because no one really cares, or I keep bringing it up when someone says so-and-so's case offers the "best" protection when, in fact, it doesn't. If I were to say that a Meucci cue is the most well constructed cue on the planet I'd have plenty of members telling me why that statement is not factual. So why does the same criteria not apply to cases?

How to phrase this?????

Ok, how about this, what do you expect your case to do as far as protecting your cue?


What is the value of the cue to the ratio of protection you feel is perfect? In other words a $25 cue is probably not as important to protect as a $2500 cue.

So the question is do you consider the value of your cue when you put it into a case and how well that case protects your cue?

This question is quite leading; If you treasure your cue and seek to see that no harms comes to it would you feel sick inside if it were to accidentally fall out of your case and hit the ground? Given the option would you prefer a case that cradles your cue in foam, preventing excess movement or one which allows the cue to move a lot?

Ok that's it. Thanks for the time.
 
JB Cases said:
Alright, I usually don't start threads like these - makes me feel all EW inside.

BUT I need to know a few things about you and what you want.

I know that AZ has the most diverse group of members in any pool forum. We have rank amateurs, pros, top amateurs, cue collectors, league players, cue makers and case makers.

As a cue case maker I personally have been on a Protection First platform from the beginning, it's why I started. I probably won't step down from that platform but I do want to hear your thoughts on this. I have been told that protection doesn't matter. (seriously). I refuse to believe this but maybe it doesn't matter to most of you as much as it does to me. A lot of the emails I get are from people that respect my stance on this. My question to the group however is am I being too obsessive/compulsive about this subject?

Why am I writing this post? Well it's time that I either give up trying to push my "Protection First" agenda because no one really cares, or I keep bringing it up when someone says so-and-so's case offers the "best" protection when, in fact, it doesn't. If I were to say that a Meucci cue is the most well constructed cue on the planet I'd have plenty of members telling me why that statement is not factual. So why does the same criteria not apply to cases?

How to phrase this?????

Ok, how about this, what do you expect your case to do as far as protecting your cue?


What is the value of the cue to the ratio of protection you feel is perfect? In other words a $25 cue is probably not as important to protect as a $2500 cue.

So the question is do you consider the value of your cue when you put it into a case and how well that case protects your cue?

This question is quite leading; If you treasure your cue and seek to see that no harms comes to it would you feel sick inside if it were to accidentally fall out of your case and hit the ground? Given the option would you prefer a case that cradles your cue in foam, preventing excess movement or one which allows the cue to move a lot?

Ok that's it. Thanks for the time.
Click to expand...

John, I think cases should have a detachable bottom for cleaning and air out. With a detachable bottom you could remove any loose debris by vacuuming from both sides and this would also allow the case to be aired out to help keep it moisture free.

I have people come to me all the time to have the wraps on their cues repressed. Due to this I have found that many people have hands that sweat profusely, so their wrap need constant maintenance because they always become wet. Well when they are done playing, even if they wipe their cues down before putting them in the case the wraps are still moist if not wet. This moisture must go somewhere and in many cases it appears to migrate down toward the bottom of the case. Over time you will have a breeding ground for mold and mildew due to the repeated addition of moisture.

I have made it a point to cut the bottom out of old cases that were discarded and this problem certainly exists. Don't know if what I have outlined is possible but it would solve the problems above, by allowing a cleaning that could not be done any other way.

Take care John.
 
All I want in a case

John,

All I want in a case are a few simple things. If a cue is worth toting it is worth protecting. The humidity comment from Craig is a great point and I would like a case that lets me clean the bottom too as well as have room for a fairly large package of the stuff that absorbs moisture.

Back to my wants: The case must protect the cue from anything reasonable. It doesn't damage the cue itself, it doesn't make it easy for the cue to warp, and a cue isn't likely to be damaged if the case is dropped or something dropped on it. I don't expect to be able to drive my truck over the case without damaging the cue. Which brings up my next point, the case must be light. It gets old in a hurry toting a heavy case. The case must look classy. Simple but elegant is another way to put it. One of these days I will have a case tooled in nothing but basket weave. The case needs storage for the things I tote. One huge pocket on the front that opens with a "C" flap and the adjustable dividers might be a thought with a side slit for a jump cue but just a cloth separator so those of us that don't tote a dedicated jump butt don't lose the space.

It must also be reasonably cheap. A case shouldn't cost more than than a cue. My current case listed for five or so and I paid three and a quarter for it new. Since my cues are working cues, I can't see paying much over five hundred for a case and less is of course better.

Edited to add give me a couple of extra inches of length too. Annoying when a joint protector makes a cue too long to fit in a case. Plus I want to put the pins in my shafts where they should be to begin with. Thirty inch shaft plus an inch and a half of pin/joint protector.

Hu
 
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the level of protection I want is this...

take any car with the door open...place the case on the ground half in half out of the car.. the case should be able to withstand a slamming car door with none of that energy reaching the cues inside.. that to me would be adequate protection..
 
I agree with everything that Hu said in the previous post. Immobilization of the cues is paramount for me. I also would like to see a case without the handle attached directly to the lid.

Chris
 
manwon said:
John, I think cases should have a detachable bottom for cleaning and air out. With a detachable bottom you could remove any loose debris by vacuuming from both sides and this would also allow the case to be aired out to help keep it moisture free.

I have people come to me all the time to have the wraps on their cues repressed. Due to this I have found that many people have hands that sweat profusely, so their wrap need constant maintenance because they always become wet. Well when they are done playing, even if they wipe their cues down before putting them in the case the wraps are still moist if not wet. This moisture must go somewhere and in many cases it appears to migrate down toward the bottom of the case. Over time you will have a breeding ground for mold and mildew due to the repeated addition of moisture.

I have made it a point to cut the bottom out of old cases that were discarded and this problem certainly exists. Don't know if what I have outlined is possible but it would solve the problems above, by allowing a cleaning that could not be done any other way.

Take care John.
Click to expand...

This is a great idea! This is a case I did as an experiment a year ago. The bottom and top both zipper off and the back has a full length zipper so that the whole "skin" can be removed.

http://www.jbcases.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3129
23.JPG


The interior is also an experiment in flexible configurations. It works but is a bit to cumbersome for the average user in my opinion.

Anyone else want this option for cases?
 
John,
I must admit I find your cases a little to ornate for my liking...but this thing is the ugliest device I have ever seen. Please tell me no one has actually purchased this.

On the protection angle the IEC (International Electrotechnical Commission) defines rugged as being able to withstand a fall from 2 meters (about 6 feet for the imperial crowd). I would say that such a fall should not damage the cue and leave only cosmetic damage to case. This would suffice (from any axis).

Nick

JB Cases said:
This is a great idea! This is a case I did as an experiment a year ago. The bottom and top both zipper off and the back has a full length zipper so that the whole "skin" can be removed.

http://www.jbcases.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3129
23.JPG


The interior is also an experiment in flexible configurations. It works but is a bit to cumbersome for the average user in my opinion.

Anyone else want this option for cases?
Click to expand...
 
Nick B said:
John,
I must admit I find your cases a little to ornate for my liking...but this thing is the ugliest device I have ever seen. Please tell me no one has actually purchased this.

On the protection angle the IEC (International Electrotechnical Commission) defines rugged as being able to withstand a fall from 2 meters (about 6 feet for the imperial crowd). I would say that such a fall should not damage the cue and leave only cosmetic damage to case. This would suffice (from any axis).

Nick
Click to expand...

:-) No, no one bought it. Just a design I thought of and thought the materials looked good together at the time. My seamstress was also pretty green when she did it so it's a little rough. I like it though. Super lightweight and good for throwing cues into quickly. It's worth a ball or two when I am gambling because it's so distracting.
 
I'm all for "protection first" I can't get it when people spends big $$$ on custom cases to hold their High end cues and these cases have "just" fabric dividers... In my opinion the PVC tubes that you introduced with Instroke is the only way to go!

I have been disappointed with the protection of all the cases I've seen except the Instroke cases.
 
Here is my input. Most of the fabrics in cases wick away any moisture that the cue has accumulated. I used to like the very tight snug feel of my Porper cases, but after continuous use, they would get damp. I now use the tube style cases from various manufacturers and the looser the fit, the longer it takes for the material to get yucky. I even like the cases with just the fabric dividers, because there is more air flow and they seem to stay drier.
How about a case made with a nice outer shell with replaceable inserts, tubes, etc. so that every year or so, no more mustiness or dampness.
 
I've used George 2x4 cases for 20 years and love them, though I would like to take out the fabric dividers and wash them!

how bout a convertible case where you could pull the cue holding section out of the outer shell like a cartridge for cleaning, or changing the configuration.....then you could have one case with options!

pm me for where to send the royalty checks :)
 
John, some people don't really care about extreme protection, but I do. Mainly because you have proven in the past that it can be made in many styles. Actually, in nearly any style imaginable. So why not have it?

Being able to open it from the top and bottom is an excellent idea, IMO.
 
I like a protective case for $ome cues but its hard to beat an envelope case for every day carry. Never had a problem.

The removable bottom idea sounds great.
 
JB Cases said:
Ok, how about this, what do you expect your case to do as far as protecting your cue?

What is the value of the cue to the ratio of protection you feel is perfect? In other words a $25 cue is probably not as important to protect as a $2500 cue.

So the question is do you consider the value of your cue when you put it into a case and how well that case protects your cue?
Click to expand...

CUE PROTECTION:

1. There should be no pressures on the lateral & longitudinal sides of the cue. The cue should be like "floating" in the air or suspended in a jelly

2. It should keep humidity at normal levels. I play in air conditioned centers wherein humidity is set at comfortable levels. The problem is after playing when I go home as the humidity can reach up to 80% during the rainy days. If my opened bag of chips gets saggy inside a sealed (not vacuum tight) container, what more can happen to my cues that won't be used for a couple of days?

3. It should keep internal temperature stable & at comfortable levels. I want to be able to leave my cues inside the car even if it's 35C under the sun. I did a simple test once: the a cabin temperature reached 42C while the outside temp was 30C. I placed a highly protective production case with internal temp of 28C inside the car & the internal temp rose to 34.4C within 15mins. I hope the "next generation" digital cases will be able to regulate internal temperature & humidity as well. Perhaps you can pump nitrogen as part of "protective" layer like those in race tires for the meantime

4. The case can stand up horizontally to the point that the cues are like hanging like a pendulum so that they can be stored for years without warping.

5. Shock proof

6. Water proof

7. Thief proof :thumbup:


To answer the second question, a $25 cue today MIGHT cost $2500 someday for whatever circumstances that could happen. I think it should be a standard that every cue case should be able to protect the cue from warpage... the green side to this is that there will be lesser need to cut the trees if the cues remain straight :wink:

Right now, I put my more valuable cues into the case that I know gives them the best protection. But the if case's price isn't, I would love to put all my cues in such case
 
NYC cue dude said:
manwon,
Keep it simple. A regular, small silica package will do the trick. (like those found in new electronic packaging)

Rg
Click to expand...

Rg, I would not use a Silica package because while it will remove moisture, it will also remove moisture from the wood. Wood needs to maintain a certain amount moisture content to maintain it's elasticity and flexibility.

What I proposed is very simple for some one with Johns resources, and obviously he has given it some thought himself. Maybe, he will think about it again, because it would certainly solve some major problems that exist.

That was the purpose of this thread in the first place!

Take care.
 
I agree with everyone on here for the most part. To me a case must do its primary purpose, CARRY MY CUES, on top of that It must be easy to keep clean. I spend enough time as it is cleaning shafts. It MUST be durable. I drive an extended cab pickup and guess where my cues end up when I am going somewhere, the back seat. When I am looking at a case to buy I look at 4 things in this order, durablity, weight, overall size, and the abillity to carry all my stuff. As an upstart case maker these are the things I try to carry into what I am building. Looks are just that, looks. Aren't cases supposed to be functional?
 
manwon said:
Rg, I would not use a Silica package because while it will remove moisture, it will also remove moisture from the wood. Wood needs to maintain a certain amount moisture content to maintain it's elasticity and flexibility.

What I proposed is very simple for some one with Johns resources, and obviously he has given it some thought himself. Maybe, he will think about it again, because it would certainly solve some major problems that exist.

That was the purpose of this thread in the first place!

Take care.
Click to expand...

Silica packages are intended to reduce water vapor. how much water could be in my cue in the form of gas? :D
 
changing needs

As my need has changed over the years concerning cues the same is true with cases.

Pre 9/11 you could fly with the cues in the cabin. Which meant the cue or the case never left my watchful eye and it was more climate controlled.

Things have changed... In My Opinion they need to be lighter more sturdey have better locking features if possible enviromently controlled.

I myself have been researching the "old school" solid wooden cases with sturdy hinges and locks and using small dessicant packs inside.(aluminum ones seem so cold and impersonal)

I also feel the value of the case should be consumerate to the value of the cue they go hand in hand.
 
I have a customer that wants a space for a silica gel packet. So I did some research and found this interesting site among others http://www.theruststore.com/Silica-Gel-FAQ-W40C2.aspx

It seems as though the packets would tend to get saturated too quickly if they were near the top of the case.

It's interesting to note that the silica gel balls can get full and sometimes they pop when full of water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

Interesting to see as I have often thought of including them in each case.
 
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