Cue Tips with CJ WILEY - Drawing the Ball

Neil said:
If you are using a pendulum stroke, and drop your shoulder just before contact, you will NOT be hitting with a level cue. There is no way you can be! A pendulum stroke hits the cb with a level stroke at contact. So, any change you do just before that will alter you being level. If you want to drop your elbow, you better do it a ways before contact, not just before.

A quick test, look at your chalk mark on the cb and see if you actually are hitting where you think you are. A training cb is best for it because it shows the chalk marks, and you can easily pick an exact spot to try and hit.
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Been going through some of these threads, because I feel that there is much to be learned from most of them. This post stood out to me. Not in any sort of positive or negative way.

I'd say that for the most part I use a standard "pendulum" stroke with no elbow drop. There are times, however, when I do drop my elbow. I can do so with a level cue. The secret is to bend the wrist at contact.

Basically, you're bending your wrist in so that the knuckle of your thumb is pointing more towards the floor instead of straight ahead. If you don't do this when dropping the elbow, then yes, your tip will be aimed higher and you won't be as accurate.

I hope that makes sense.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Been going through some of these threads, because I feel that there is much to be learned from most of them. This post stood out to me. Not in any sort of positive or negative way.

I'd say that for the most part I use a standard "pendulum" stroke with no elbow drop. There are times, however, when I do drop my elbow. I can do so with a level cue. The secret is to bend the wrist at contact.

Basically, you're bending your wrist in so that the knuckle of your thumb is pointing more towards the floor instead of straight ahead. If you don't do this when dropping the elbow, then yes, your tip will be aimed higher and you won't be as accurate.

I hope that makes sense.
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Beiber,

Playing pool is simple compared to explaining it in TEXT. Dropping your elbow can be what keeps your cue 'level'. Depending on your grip.

I will not proport to explain the 'pendulum' stroke as I do not advocate it for anyone that can do 'better'. JMHO. What you say about your knuckles seems to be a result of a grip that is not conducive to what to me is a more natural 'piston' type stroke. The grip needs to fit the stroke.

You seem to be caught in the middle. What stroke do you want to use? That will define what grip you should probably use.

The bottom line is what best suites you to put the cue ball onto the object ball where you want to put it.

For me, it is a straight back & straight through inline 'piston' type stroke. If for you it is a 'pendulum' type stroke, then that is what you should probably use.

You need to find your own way. That's the bottom line.

Which way do you want to go?

Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
Beiber,

Playing pool is simple compared to explaining it in TEXT. Dropping your elbow can be what keeps your cue 'level'. Depending on your grip.

I will not proport to explain the 'pendulum' stroke as I do not advocate it for anyone that can do 'better'. JMHO. What you say about your knuckles seems to be a result of a grip that is not conducive to what to me is a more natural 'piston' type stroke. The grip needs to fit the stroke.

You seem to be caught in the middle. What stroke do you want to use? That will define what grip you should probably use.

The bottom line is what best suites you to put the cue ball onto the object ball where you want to put it.

For me, it is a straight back & straight through inline 'piston' type stroke. If for you it is a 'pendulum' type stroke, then that is what you should probably use.

You need to find your own way. That's the bottom line.

Which way do you want to go?

Regards,
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I was just stating that it is possible to have a level cue when dropping the elbow.
 
BeiberLvr said:
I was just stating that it is possible to have a level cue when dropping the elbow.
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Maybe you misunderstood me, yes, you can have a level cue while dropping the elbow IF you also at the same time change something else in your stroke, such as the grip that you mentioned. My point was, if you just drop your elbow when using a pendulum stroke, then you won't be level anymore. However, if you intend to use a pendulum stroke, but revert back to a piston stroke (dropping the elbow), and you have experience using the piston stroke, then you may automatically also revert to changing your grip at the right time.

I do stand by my statement that if you just drop your elbow, you won't be level at contact. The tip has to come up unless you change something else also.
 
No way you were misunderstood Neil



Neil said:
Maybe you misunderstood me, yes, you can have a level cue while dropping the elbow IF you also at the same time change something else in your stroke, such as the grip that you mentioned. My point was, if you just drop your elbow when using a pendulum stroke, then you won't be level anymore. However, if you intend to use a pendulum stroke, but revert back to a piston stroke (dropping the elbow), and you have experience using the piston stroke, then you may automatically also revert to changing your grip at the right time.

I do stand by my statement that if you just drop your elbow, you won't be level at contact. The tip has to come up unless you change something else also.
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draw stroke

I believe the reason new players tend to jerk the cue back on a long draw shot and not meet with much success is that they watch an advanced player shoot a long draw shot with power and when they see the cue reach the end of a hard full stroke the sudden stop as the cue hits the end of the stroke when the elbo hits the fully flexed position can look like a jerk back if you are watching the cue rather than the arm of the shooter. On an extreme power shot like a full table length sot to the object ball and drawing back full table the cue is moving very quickly and when it finishes at its full stroke limit will stop abruptly and make look like a pull back as the bicep relaxes again after the stroke is finished.
 
Neil said:
I do stand by my statement that if you just drop your elbow, you won't be level at contact. The tip has to come up unless you change something else also.
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I completely agree. That's why on shots where I do drop my elbow slightly I make sure to bend my wrist.

I would also agree that dropping the elbow may be nothing more than a placebo effect where the player thinks it's doing more than it is.
 
Your cue is the key point of focus, make it travel in a straight line

BeiberLvr said:
I completely agree. That's why on shots where I do drop my elbow slightly I make sure to bend my wrist.

I would also agree that dropping the elbow may be nothing more than a placebo effect where the player thinks it's doing more than it is.
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It's a big mistake to think about your arm or elbow. Your cue is the key point of focus, make it travel in a straight line and you wont' have to worry about your elbow. ;)
 
CJ Wiley said:
It's a big mistake to think about your arm or elbow. Your cue is the key point of focus, make it travel in a straight line and you wont' have to worry about your elbow. ;)
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CJ,

WOW! What you just said in 37 words...

is music to my hears but...

it is probably blaphemy to some.

Best Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
CJ,

WOW! What you just said in 37 words...

is music to my hears but...

it is probably blaphemy to some.

Best Regards,
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Most of the instructors on here would agree with CJ. As he said, the most important thing is delivering the cue in a straight line. The instructors (from what I've read in the past) aren't against the exaggerated follow through with elbow drop. They just won't teach it, and the reason is two-fold.

1. It has no extra physical effect on the CB.
2. Without hours and hours of practice, it's much more difficult to cue in a straight line.

If you [not you, Rick] have an exaggerated follow through and elbow drop, and tend to miss shot often, that's probably one of the reasons.

I compare it to being able to talk on the phone while driving, and not getting into an accident. It's an "advanced", albeit, unnecessary skill. The reason most instructors don't teach the elbow drop is the same reason you don't learn how to talk and drive when you first get your license.
 
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at some level, everything aligns and is perfect, not just the "Game"

ENGLISH! said:
CJ,

WOW! What you just said in 37 words...

is music to my hears but...

it is probably blaphemy to some.

Best Regards,
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37....interesting, it's my favorite number.

37 TIMES 3 is 111
37 Times 6 is 222
37 Times 9 is 333
37 times 12 is 444
times 15 is 555 ... each time you add 3 it creates 3 of the next number
ETC........

See, at some level, everything aligns and is perfect, not just the "Game" 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
37....interesting, it's my favorite number.

37 TIMES 3 is 111
37 Times 6 is 222
37 Times 9 is 333
37 times 12 is 444
times 15 is 555 ... each time you add 3 it creates 3 of the next number
ETC........

See, at some level, everything aligns and is perfect, not just the "Game" 'The Game is the Teacher'
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Well, isn't that interesting. Yes, the number 3 seems to be a very 'magical' number.

I noticed you stopped at 37 x 15 = 555. I think that was a good decision.

Best Regards,
 
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BeiberLvr said:
Most of the instructors on here would agree with CJ. As he said, the most important thing is delivering the cue in a straight line. The instructors (from what I've read in the past) aren't against the exaggerated follow through with elbow drop. They just won't teach it, and the reason is two-fold.

1. It has no extra physical effect on the CB. Except it's straight.
2. Without hours and hours of practice, it's much more difficult to cue in a straight line. I totally disagree. It's more natural since the cue is straight, hopfully.

If you [not you, Rick] have an exaggerated follow through and elbow drop, and tend to miss shot often, that's probably one of the reasons. Who says that the follow through has to be exaggerated?

I compare it to being able to talk on the phone while driving, and not getting into an accident. It's an "advanced", albeit, unnecessary skill. The reason most instructors don't teach the elbow drop is the same reason you don't learn how to talk and drive when you first get your license. So a straight cue delivery can get you killed? :wink: Now you really are trying to scare people.
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If the MOST important thing is delivering the cue on a straight line, then how can it be an unnecessary skill?

Regards,
 
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ENGLISH! said:
I'll play.

Please explain how a non-straight moving cue can create the exact same effect.

Regards,
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Who said anything about a non-straight moving cue?

I said that moving the cue in a straight line can be accomplished by not dropping the elbow.

There is no added effect to the CB when dropping the elbow. Which makes it, as previously stated, an unnecessary skill.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Who said anything about a non-straight moving cue?

I said that moving the cue in a straight line can be accomplished by not dropping the elbow.

There is no added effect to the CB when dropping the elbow. Which makes it, as previously stated, an unnecessary skill.
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Sorry,

Can you explain how to make a cue go in a straight line without the elbow moving?
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Sorry,

Can you explain how to make a cue go in a straight line without the elbow dropping?
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You can easily find plenty of videos on Youtube of pros stroking the cue straight without dropping their elbow. You can also find videos of pros that do.

I'm not telling you or anyone else to not drop your elbow. I'm simply stating a fact that doing so does not give a player any special advantage.

That's as clear as I can make my point.
 
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