I would love to see a challenge match between the two(2) of you. Playing pool that is. Thanks for saying what if I would say, I would get hatcheted up to pieces.
Cue Tips with CJ WILEY - Drawing the Ball
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
I would love to see a challenge match between the two(2) of you. Playing pool that is. Thanks for saying what if I would say, I would get hatcheted up to pieces.
Mr. Wiley,
When I play, I even refer to the cue ball as, "I". I am the cue ball & I have to go where 'I' need to or want to go. The layout does not dictate to me. I generally take the easiest path but when there is a road block on the road map 'I' either take another route or 'I' break through it. I do understand "Be the Cue Ball".
Thanks for all of your helpful insights & reinforcements. I very much appreciate you presence here on AZB.
Thanks again,
Rick
You ask about the pendulum stroke, I explain it to you. Then you want to get nitpicky about it being called "pendulum" because it doesn't exactly fit the definition of a true perfect pendulum, but it called "pendulum" because it resembles a pendulum.
You clearly don't understand the benefits of using it. Scott mentions that that is fine, no one is saying you have to use it. Then Fran gets on and makes a statement totally out of line to Scott. Which actually is HER acting like a 6 year old because she doesn't care for the pendulum stroke, and seems to like to knock any other instructors about it every chance she gets.
You asked for info, and were given it. You don't want to use it, fine. As Scott said, that is your choice. For you and Fran to want to start knocking what others teach, is way out of line. Especially for Fran.
Well said. Obviously, I agree with you. There are bio-mechanics involved. It is not a true 'pemdulum' regardless of the comparisons. I also agree that the straight back & forth thought process is better in that it is a more simple & less complicated 'mind picture'. A 'pendulum' might be easier to teach (& it has some merit) regardless of the results, but I would rather trust the amazing human mind & body. I'd rather be a natural player than a clone of a one 'drug' fits all prescription. Just MHO. If one locks the elbow & pivots from the shoulder, is it not still a 'pendulum' but with an angled rod?
Sorry for the rant but someone, not you or Neil, has again upset me a bit with his childish nonsence. Not a good image or salesman for instructors.
I am NOT an instructor, nor am I certifiable. No offense meant to any open minded instructors here on AZB.
Rick
PS I will probably regret this post. But... I'm only human & not a 'pendulum' machine, nor do I want to be one.
PSS Again, sorry for the rant.
Not trying to attract the flies. :wink:
Neil,
I politey thanked you as I honestly appreciated your efforts. I can not help that the stroke does not fit the 'definition'. When questioned, it does not stand up.
I do not want to get into any antaganistic discussions or 'arguments', especially involving two(2) totally independent topics.
You may or may not know of past history between Mr. Lee & myself. I wish him no harm in any way, but when he chidishly & covertly twists a knife it is upsetting. I have refrained numerous times from any responce. I am limiting this one, as I have said, I wish to cause him no harm. When I saw Ms. Crimi's comment, I lost self control, to my regret. I sincerely hope this can end here & now.
Best regards,
Rick
hahahahahaha
Rick, I know there is a little history there. However, there really was nothing wrong with what Scott said. You don't really understand it. That's perfectly fine. Some never do. That doesn't make you any less of a person or a player. We all see things differently. You like to get a "dig" in on Scott whenever you can, from her post history, Fran does too.
Coming from her, I find that very unprofessional. Personally, I tend to have a problem with a number of her teaching methods. But, a lot of people seem to really like her way. Different strokes for different folks is very apt here.
Rick, I usually leave well enough alone until someone throws me a back-handed insult. Then depending on how I feel, I may have to respond. In that case, Scott insulted you, me and CJ all in one swoop. Not cool at all.
By the way, I happen to think your discussion of the word 'pendulum' is very interesting and it certainly makes me think about definitions.
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Neil,
I typed out a long response & some how hit something inadvertantly & lost it. Probably a sign that I was getting ready to cross a line regardless of how repectful I was trying to be. I lost control when I thanked Ms. Crimi & for that fact I am sorry. Some things are better suited for the PM section.
I intend Mr. Lee no harm, neither personally nor profesionally. I have tried to employ live & let live, as well as, forgive if not forget in his regard. Mr. Lee can not seem to subcribe to those edicts. His seemingly poilte remarks to me are in reality covert knifeings. They are childish hypocrocies in the worst form. My little 'digs' have been responsive. If he pokes me I will react. If he pokes me hard I will react just as hard & at least one of if not both of us will probably be sorry. Obviously we do not like each other even though we have never met.
Maybe I'm crossing a line again so I'll stop there. Except to say, I DO understand the 'pendulum' stroke. It is simplistic. There can be merit in simplicity. However simplicity has limits. To surpass limits usually requires somethng more complex. Some can handle complex things & some can not.
We can agree to disagree, in civility I hope.
Sincerely & Best Regards,
Rick
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Example of a scripted series shot in LA for main stream America
This was shot in LA and scripted for the series....this was for a broad audience of mostly beginners (we guessed) because it was so "main stream".
This was shot in LA and scripted for the series....this was for a broad audience of mostly beginners (we guessed) because it was so "main stream".
take a sword and have them use it like it was a pool cue
I have a way to teach the stroke that has worked magic with many of my students....I take a sword and have them use it like it was a pool cue, making sure to keep the blade straight up and down as they move it in a stroking motion....this gives them immediate feedback on what they should be feeling.....if you don't have a sword handy I have students that have used a yardstick instead.....just make sure you move it smoothly and keep the blade or edge straight up and down throughout the "stroke.
I have a way to teach the stroke that has worked magic with many of my students....I take a sword and have them use it like it was a pool cue, making sure to keep the blade straight up and down as they move it in a stroking motion....this gives them immediate feedback on what they should be feeling.....if you don't have a sword handy I have students that have used a yardstick instead.....just make sure you move it smoothly and keep the blade or edge straight up and down throughout the "stroke.
Rick...Here's where you are wrong. I have never attacked you. I refused to make a apology for calling someone out on wrong information that they posted. I don't care if they've played for 50 yrs...the information was wrong. You didn't like that...that's your choice.
As far as "poking" at you...not at all. You still do not understand how the pendulum stroke that we teach works...or how it could work for many players. Again, that's your choice not to understand it. Nobody ever said that you should use it. Explaining the concept here, you could wait all day and not get it. That's why I suggested learning it from a qualified instructor...one who can clearly communicate and demonstrate what we're talking about. greyghost is one of those, and lives near you. Neil is another one qualified to teach this, as well as several other teachers who post here. Again, you refused to acknowledge that as a potential option. Your choice.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
As far as "poking" at you...not at all. You still do not understand how the pendulum stroke that we teach works...or how it could work for many players. Again, that's your choice not to understand it. Nobody ever said that you should use it. Explaining the concept here, you could wait all day and not get it. That's why I suggested learning it from a qualified instructor...one who can clearly communicate and demonstrate what we're talking about. greyghost is one of those, and lives near you. Neil is another one qualified to teach this, as well as several other teachers who post here. Again, you refused to acknowledge that as a potential option. Your choice.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Sir, your are 'correct' as 'always' & your 'wording' of the 'facts' are impressive. Maybe we can meet up soon & have a drink or two(2) together. I believe Crown Royal is your preferred brand. I'll buy.
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The Game is Perfect, Just Uncover IT - The Game is the Teacher
"I AM that I AM"....that reminds me of a time I was hanging out at my pool room "CJ's" behind the bar of all places....I really didn't spend a lot of time back there, but this day was the exception. An older man came in, sat down and ordered a soda...I knew how to "mix" that one so I got it for him and set it down.......he said "you are the professional pool player CJ aren't you?"....I replied "yes, that's me, unless I owe you money:smile: LoL"....he laughed, took a drink and said, "no, you don't owe me money, but I would like to ask you a question"......I suddenly felt him get serous and wondered what this older man was up to "sure, you can ask me whatever you want" I said, leaning against the cooler.....the man pointed at the pool table and ask "what are you trying to achieve playing that Game?"....I hesitated, thought and replied "I'm trying to be the best player I can be, maybe even the best in the world, at least once".....the man place his napkin between us, looked into my eyes and said firmly "you know this Game you play is already PERFECT....it's up to you to uncover it" and immediately turned over the napkin and looked under it....."Do You Understand" he said firmly again "The Game is ALREADY PERFECT, it's just up to you to uncover that Perfection", again he lifted up the napkin, looked under it and then quickly back into my now defocused stare......His eyes by now felt like they were probing my very soul and I squirmed a bit, suddenly feeling very warm and answered "I think I understand.....it's not me that has to be perfect, it's the game, so I don't need to try to be perfect, I just need to Uncover the Perfection that's already been placed there...in the Game.....by...uhhhh".....he smiled at my hesitation and finished "by the Breath of the Universe or The Breath of GOD, right now that's not as important as YOU having Faith that it's TRUE!.....He then told me to hold on for a minute and went to his car and brought back a book called 'A Parenthesis in Eternity', that I read and still have to this day.....this was one of those occasions that influenced me so much I find myself wondering if this old man was really an old man.....or.....angel....no, that would be silly now wouldn't it?.....hmmm, I still can't help but wonder........:grin-angelic: 'The Game is the Teacher'
"I AM that I AM"....that reminds me of a time I was hanging out at my pool room "CJ's" behind the bar of all places....I really didn't spend a lot of time back there, but this day was the exception. An older man came in, sat down and ordered a soda...I knew how to "mix" that one so I got it for him and set it down.......he said "you are the professional pool player CJ aren't you?"....I replied "yes, that's me, unless I owe you money:smile: LoL"....he laughed, took a drink and said, "no, you don't owe me money, but I would like to ask you a question"......I suddenly felt him get serous and wondered what this older man was up to "sure, you can ask me whatever you want" I said, leaning against the cooler.....the man pointed at the pool table and ask "what are you trying to achieve playing that Game?"....I hesitated, thought and replied "I'm trying to be the best player I can be, maybe even the best in the world, at least once".....the man place his napkin between us, looked into my eyes and said firmly "you know this Game you play is already PERFECT....it's up to you to uncover it" and immediately turned over the napkin and looked under it....."Do You Understand" he said firmly again "The Game is ALREADY PERFECT, it's just up to you to uncover that Perfection", again he lifted up the napkin, looked under it and then quickly back into my now defocused stare......His eyes by now felt like they were probing my very soul and I squirmed a bit, suddenly feeling very warm and answered "I think I understand.....it's not me that has to be perfect, it's the game, so I don't need to try to be perfect, I just need to Uncover the Perfection that's already been placed there...in the Game.....by...uhhhh".....he smiled at my hesitation and finished "by the Breath of the Universe or The Breath of GOD, right now that's not as important as YOU having Faith that it's TRUE!.....He then told me to hold on for a minute and went to his car and brought back a book called 'A Parenthesis in Eternity', that I read and still have to this day.....this was one of those occasions that influenced me so much I find myself wondering if this old man was really an old man.....or.....angel....no, that would be silly now wouldn't it?.....hmmm, I still can't help but wonder........:grin-angelic: 'The Game is the Teacher'
I've reread this thread. Neil's comments are accurate IMO. CJ's comments are accurate IMO.
*Scott Lee is likewise correct, it's easier to teach and learn a pendulum stroke than a piston stroke.
*My grandfather clocks do not have arms that smack into a ball near the bottom of their arc. If you tell a newbie to pull the cue straight back and pull or push it straight forward through their bridge hand, their lower arm will rise and fall and rise again in something close to a pendulum stroke automatically. If you get someone obsessed over a pendulum stroke, you'll see them at the hall taking practice strokes while looking behind them at their stroking hand. This does not help their aim, position play, etc.
*There is likewise little or no rigidity in the upper arm of a good player. Whether rock still or with a little motion in the upper arm, I prefer my students to be loose and flowing with the stroke rather than obsessive over making perfect pendulums or perfect pistons.
*If you have a pendulum stroke exactly like a grandfather clock, your tip gap and bridge length still better be incredibly consistent or you will strike the cue ball on all kinds of up strokes and down strokes for misses along the vertical axis.
*Take my experiment. Look in the mirror while you stroke. Try to make perfect pendulums. Now try to come straight back and through with the cue stick. Little difference if your stance and etc. are orthodox.
*Scott Lee is likewise correct, it's easier to teach and learn a pendulum stroke than a piston stroke.
*My grandfather clocks do not have arms that smack into a ball near the bottom of their arc. If you tell a newbie to pull the cue straight back and pull or push it straight forward through their bridge hand, their lower arm will rise and fall and rise again in something close to a pendulum stroke automatically. If you get someone obsessed over a pendulum stroke, you'll see them at the hall taking practice strokes while looking behind them at their stroking hand. This does not help their aim, position play, etc.
*There is likewise little or no rigidity in the upper arm of a good player. Whether rock still or with a little motion in the upper arm, I prefer my students to be loose and flowing with the stroke rather than obsessive over making perfect pendulums or perfect pistons.
*If you have a pendulum stroke exactly like a grandfather clock, your tip gap and bridge length still better be incredibly consistent or you will strike the cue ball on all kinds of up strokes and down strokes for misses along the vertical axis.
*Take my experiment. Look in the mirror while you stroke. Try to make perfect pendulums. Now try to come straight back and through with the cue stick. Little difference if your stance and etc. are orthodox.
Seriously, what do you call Mike Davis' stroke? It looks like a pendulum stroke, but his elbow goes up and down, so the tip rises and falls, swooping in to hit the cue ball. It obviously works for him, but not sure I'd practice it...I've played a lot of guys that had that rise/fall/rise action as the arm swings forward, just not as severe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZHg_V41plc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZHg_V41plc
keep it simple, or you will get the dreaded "paralysis by analysis"
The outcome is to make the cue go straight through the ball....keep it simple, or you will get the dreaded "paralysis by analysis", I've seen players that get this and it isn't pretty....it's called "the fidgets" in the Pro World...LoL
The outcome is to make the cue go straight through the ball....keep it simple, or you will get the dreaded "paralysis by analysis", I've seen players that get this and it isn't pretty....it's called "the fidgets" in the Pro World...LoL
Hate to come in late to the party, but I'm curious about this statement you made a few days ago.
If a pendulum stroke isn't really a "true perfect pendulum", why do you insist on describing it's acceleration as such?
A real pendulum uses gravity alone to accelerate the object. A real pendulum hits maximum speed at the bottom of its arc, so of course, acceleration due to gravity is zero at that point (it's actually beginning its way upward right after that). But a "pure pendulum stroke" is powered primarily by the biceps, not gravity. The biceps has the ability to continue acceleration (and thus increase velocity) right up to the moment of impact.
No, you can not accelerate "through the ball" because the mass of the CB robs momentum from the cue and slows its velocity (deceleration), but you can certainly have a stroke that powers through with an "accelerating force" that is identical to (or perhaps even greater than) what it was at the instant before impact.
A good example would be a hard punch to the head. Can you imagine how many millions less Manny Pacquiao would have in the bank if all he could muster in an uppercut was the force of gravity over a 12" distance? Manny extends the "tip" (his fist) right through the chin, and the guy goes down for the count.
BTW I can't wait to see what CJ has to say about using a sword to develop follow through. I'm pretty sure I already know exactly where he is going with that, having played with swords more than my fair share.:wink:
Oops! I guess I should have read that last post CJ made. No, his use of the sword is not what I had in mind at all. I was coming from a different place in my thinking, but I'm sure with his martial arts background he'd agree with me if we got together and talked about it with swords in our hands and a suitable target.
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