Cuemakers......REAL...or.....PHONY ?

manwon said:
Hello Fred, I have a few questions I would like answered if possible:

1) Did Pete Tascarella run the cue repair operation state side for Adam / Helmstter cues during the late 1970's through the Early 1980's. Then after Pete stopped working doing this Job did his son not take over the position for a number of years, even after the company Competition Sports took over as the wholesaler for these cues?

2) When Adam / Helmstetter started making the Balabushka series reproduction cues in the 1980's, was Pete Tascarella not the go between for the right to use the Balabushka name? In addition was Pete also not consulted on the designs of these cues for Adam / Helmstetter?

3) During the 1980's Adam / Helmstetter in cooperation with Competition Sports did Pete Tascarrela not design a line a cues for them called the Karella series which are still being made today?

Fred, I would appreciate any information you have on this subject, and if this is true it appears that Pete Tascarrela certainly had a working relationship with the Adam / Helmstetter cue company from the late 1970's through the 1990's at a minimum. So how far of a stretch would it be to suspect they did use some Forearms in at least the early days, before they made their own.

I guess my point would be, that even if he did use some of their forearms who cares. Their forearms / short spliced blanks were some of the best around for a consistent product. Burton Spain's splice were no better, in fact the only difference was they were made here the Adams / Helmstetter Blanks were made in Japan.

Thanks Fred, I will wait for your reply.
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I can't speak to the specifics, but any business dealings that the Tascarellas have had with Adam/Helmstetter or Competition Sports are just that... business dealings.

But, to the bold-faced portion, that's the important part. If they had used Helmstetter points (which were some of the best in the business at the time), in their cues, there would be no reason to deny it considering he started with pre-made blanks to begin with. They say they didn't use Helmstetter/Adam blanks, not in denial but just matter-of-factly. The only thing that would make it a big deal is if unsuspecting buyers are getting duped into buying something that it isn't.

Did some of their early work look like they were Helmstetter blanks? I don't see why not. I've seen Spain blanks that I thought were Helmstetter blanks as well.

Fred
 
Idea: Lets just ask Pete

AZB: No treadmills are more fun...

Fatboy: Happy 4th to everyone. and if you light a fire cracker dont forget to drop in.:wink: :)
 
Cornerman said:
I can't speak to the specifics, but any business dealings that the Tascarellas have had with Adam/Helmstetter or Competition Sports are just that... business dealings.

But, to the bold-faced portion, that's the important part. If they had used Helmstetter points (which were some of the best in the business at the time), in their cues, there would be no reason to deny it considering he started with pre-made blanks to begin with. They say they didn't use Helmstetter/Adam blanks, not in denial but just matter-of-factly. The only thing that would make it a big deal is if unsuspecting buyers are getting duped into buying something that it isn't.

Did some of their early work look like they were Helmstetter blanks? I don't see why not. I've seen Spain blanks that I thought were Helmstetter blanks as well.

Fred
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Did some of their early work look like they were Helmstetter blanks? I don't see why not. I've seen Spain blanks that I thought were Helmstetter blanks as well.


This is also not at all surprising, Burton Spain and Dick Helmstetter were not only very good friends, they also most certainly colaborated when it came to point blank construction, during the late 1960's through the 1970's.

I have enough evidence of this to prove the point in any argument, however, this has also not been openly spoken about. I for one think issues like this entire thread should be put to bed. Honesty is certainly the best policy, but it will certainly hurt the business of those who have not been honest.

I have been doing research for more than 25 years and I have put together a great deal of information. However, saying this I also know I have only scratched the surface.

Take care!!!!!!!
 
Makers vs Assemblers

I consider myself a cuemaker (no pre-set definition) but first, a master woodworker. I?ve been building cues for just over 5 years but have a 35year woodworking history and I am a 3rd generation woodworker (I would be 4th generation but my Great Grandfather had the poor foresight to die before I was could apprentice him). I make ALL my own parts. To be perfectly honest I have used pre made stainless pins in the past. I make my own taps, grind my own knives and turn own assembly bolts, tap my own joint collars, shaft collars, ferrules and buttcaps and make my own rings (several styles). Everything from raw materials. I have wood I inherited from my Great Grandfather, Grandfather and Father aging in my shop. I carefully cure my inventory. Using a particular piece is a matter of judgement based on species and individual characteristics. I have built objects d?art in many discerning markets including sculpture, architecturals, furniture, carved work, bentwood, laminations, marquetry, sailboats, pattern making, instruments, experimental aircraft and musical instruments. I present this as a factual statement of my experience in high-end markets rather than blowing my horn. I design my work to outlive me as a matter of heritage and my legacy.

In this vein, I simply cannot see how the purchasers/users of these ?assembled? products can honestly believe their investment is wisely cast when they know (or should know) they will be directly compared to products that are 100% crafted by the person who signs them. This is, as usual, just my opinion?you be the judge?.but I believe at the end of the day, cue historians (there are quite a few around if you haven?t noticed) will not only discover/recognize the difference and ?out? these works AND discount (likely quite heavily) the long term value of not only these ?products? but (also quite likely) entire lines from these producers.

I do want to acknowledge there have been some very famous partnerships between famous craftsmen that have worked out quite well from a posterity viewpoint. However, by and large, most have tended to diminish the value of the piece because it has consistently proven to be difficult to predict upon whom history will smile.

So the message is:
You should expect to be told
You should expect a discount
because you will be spared neither.

I rarely post these days but I had to weigh-in here. I also haven?t read all of the posts because I?m too lazy so pardon me if this has been covered.

Happy Fourth of July to all

Respectfully,
Andy Bruce
 
HittMan said:
I consider myself a cuemaker (no pre-set definition) but first, a master woodworker. I?ve been building cues for just over 5 years but have a 35year woodworking history and I am a 3rd generation woodworker (I would be 4th generation but my Great Grandfather had the poor foresight to die before I was could apprentice him). I make ALL my own parts. To be perfectly honest I have used pre made stainless pins in the past. I make my own taps, grind my own knives and turn own assembly bolts, tap my own joint collars, shaft collars, ferrules and buttcaps and make my own rings (several styles). Everything from raw materials. I have wood I inherited from my Great Grandfather, Grandfather and Father aging in my shop. I carefully cure my inventory. Using a particular piece is a matter of judgement based on species and individual characteristics. I have built objects d?art in many discerning markets including sculpture, architecturals, furniture, carved work, bentwood, laminations, marquetry, sailboats, pattern making, instruments, experimental aircraft and musical instruments. I present this as a factual statement of my experience in high-end markets rather than blowing my horn. I design my work to outlive me as a matter of heritage and my legacy.

In this vein, I simply cannot see how the purchasers/users of these ?assembled? products can honestly believe their investment is wisely cast when they know (or should know) they will be directly compared to products that are 100% crafted by the person who signs them. This is, as usual, just my opinion?you be the judge?.but I believe at the end of the day, cue historians (there are quite a few around if you haven?t noticed) will not only discover/recognize the difference and ?out? these works AND discount (likely quite heavily) the long term value of not only these ?products? but (also quite likely) entire lines from these producers.

I do want to acknowledge there have been some very famous partnerships between famous craftsmen that have worked out quite well from a posterity viewpoint. However, by and large, most have tended to diminish the value of the piece because it has consistently proven to be difficult to predict upon whom history will smile.

So the message is:
You should expect to be told
You should expect a discount
because you will be spared neither.

I rarely post these days but I had to weigh-in here. I also haven?t read all of the posts because I?m too lazy so pardon me if this has been covered.

Happy Fourth of July to all

Respectfully,
Andy Bruce
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Andy, I totally agree and respect you opinion in the post to this thread. Some one such as yourself should be paid for your experience, knowledge and heritage. There are few in this market today who have skills that compare to what you outlined in the post. Craftsmanship like you are talking about is very rare today. Unfortunately with the easy access to all the pre-made materials and pre-made blanks anyone can with limited knowledge and machinery make basic cues with a little practice. There has never been a time when it was easier to start making cues, however, no where I have said that these cues will be crafted to the standards of a true craftsman.

The problem is in my opinion that the general public do not have enough knowledge to identify true craftsmanship and and cue assembled by a beginning cue maker. I do not know what the answer to these problems are, but disclosure by people making cues and buyers who ask educated questions would certainly help move things in the right direction.

Again I agree with your point of veiw and enjoyed reading your thoughts on this subject.
 
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I have one word that will solve this whole arguement.
PRIDE!

If you have pride in what you do you will be forthcoming that you built it from raw materials. This country has lost that to the almighty buck$$ and laziness.
 
tikkler said:
I think that when anyone is buying a so called custom cue, they should be told exactly what they are getting. With the huge influx of cue parts being available to anybody these days, it seems rather easy to make anything from a partial cue to a complete cue out of bought pieces. I myself have nothing against either way as long as I know what I am getting. If I wanted to buy a cue and the maker said he couldnt do a particular thing and he would have to get that somewhere else, I would be fine with it. The peoblem is I dont want to be led to believe that the entire cue was made by someone, and in actuality they bought almost the entire cue somewhere else and put there name on it.
Balabushka I dont believe ever claimed to make his own points, and look where it got him. I think when we are talking custom cues, we have a right to know the truth.....cant wait to hear what you guys think of this
Steve
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I think that is a fantastic post and I agree with you 100% !!!

Any cuemaker who says they can build it and then gets the pre-assembled butts or semi-finished cues from another cuemaker or distributor without being upfront and honest to their customers is a fraud/phony in my opinion and gives the honest cuemakers a bad name..

I even know a local hack named "Travis Cornelius" who clais to be a cuemaker who intentional scams unsuspecting customers into buying his "custom cues"... in all actuality they are nothing more than chinese low-end 30.00 cues and k-mart fiberglass butts that have been painted/stained over to hide the original asthetics and a few rings added alter the appearance and charges several hundred dollars for them and gets it!!!

Travis cornelius has also been ran out of Orlando Fl. and other places for taking a razor blade and cutting groove marks into a lepro tip and going over it with a brown magic-marker and selling them AS 40.00 MOORI' tips....

I know all of this for a fact and have seen more than enough evidence to have this guy lynched....

But it's guys like this one who give cuemakers/cuesmiths a BAD reputation and something needs to be done to boycott or blacklist these blatant offenders and con-men !!!




- Eddie WHeat
 
tikkler said:
I think that when anyone is buying a so called custom cue, they should be told exactly what they are getting. With the huge influx of cue parts being available to anybody these days, it seems rather easy to make anything from a partial cue to a complete cue out of bought pieces.

Steve
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Well Steve I think you dont know what it takes to make a cue whether from raw wood or bought pieces.
I dont know of any place that sells cue parts that "easily" screw together to make a cue.
All those parts need to be machined on one way or another to fit and that takes skill and equipment.
Even the joint screw that almost all cue makers buy from someone else sometimes needs some attention.
It still needs to be installed correctly.

I can start with a rough cut 1.1/2" square X 29" piece of maple or I can start with a house cue.
Both are wood and will go thru the exact same process of tapering down, Joint pin, Joint collar, Butt cap, weight bolt hole drilled and tapped, bumper fitted, shaft made and then fitted, then the final finish.
Which cue did I not make?
Which one was the assembled cue?

Only cues made in a ONE MAN SHOP can be made 100% by the cue maker.
Any help at all and he is no longer the only person that made that cue.
(this includes pre-made full splice and half splice forearms and others pre-tapering shaft wood for him)
If he has others helping him then he did not make the cue all by himself did he?
So then the question is just how much of the cue did he actually make.

However, I do agree with you about being up front and honest.
If it is important to you if someone else made parts of the cue in question then you should ask up front and the cue maker should have no qualms about giving you that information.
Most people are not quite as concerned as to the details of who made what and I am not likely to go into all that unless asked.
Since I did not make the Joint pin, or the leather tip, Or the rubber bumper, or the linen / leather that was used in the wrap, or the finish, or many of the other materials that went into the finished cue, I guess all I did, like almost all other so called cue makers, was assemble the thing.
Boy was that easy! ... :thumbup:

Selling offshore cues as custom American made is a crime.
Modifying tips and selling them as something else is fraud.
I dont think that is what we are talking about here ... is it?
 
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RocketQ said:
I have one word that will solve this whole arguement.
PRIDE!

If you have pride in what you do you will be forthcoming that you built it from raw materials. This country has lost that to the almighty buck$$ and laziness.
Click to expand...


that is true right there
 
Fatboy said:
there is nothing wrong with being a assembler, because that isnt as primitave as it sounds. Its like making spaghetti* sauce
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I got to this post by the time I realized it was 12 pages long and 4 years old...

I don't like Ragu, I prefer Classico, even when its not on sale.

Cheers.
 
One from column a one from column b.

Its like most custom shirt makers. They take your measurements and assemble the sizes to make the shirt. 31" sleeves.19" collar, etc/ same with 'custom' suits, watches etc.
 
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