Cultural Differences Between English & USA Spectators - Re: Mosconi Cup

[sjm]

I spend quite a bit of time in England and stay with relatives whenever I'm there. They are big sports fans. My relatives, who spend lots of time in America and attend American sporting events, have made the following observations about the difference between America and Europe:

1) In Europe, there are far more sporting events on television in which the participating teams are countries, or teams representing their countries (e.g., English teams like Manchester United and Arsenal playing football in the Champions League) than in the United States. English fans go crazy for these events, and it carries over into local sporting events. Except during the Olympics or World Cup, it is quite rare that a team represents America, so American fans rarely get to express national pride through sports.

2) Europe's heavy consumption of beer/ale has a unique origin in history. For most of European history, water quality was poor and beer/ale were considered by many to be safer to drink than water. This made the consumption of beer/ale extremely common, especially among the more affluent. Most of the wealthy had breweries on their own land at least up to 1700. The United States of America is just 235 years old, and the availability of drinkable water throughout most of its history explains why beer/ale could never have the same status as in Europe, where developing a taste for beer/ale was, for centuries, in the best interests of preserving one's health.

In short, European fans have more training in rooting passionately for teams that represent their countries, and drinking beer/ale is much more deeply embedded in their nature because of their history.

.... at least that's what I've been told.

So, yes, the way European fans conduct themselves at sporting events is a cultural difference.

 

[vagabond]

A big set of hooters like your avatar!

LOL. you are a easy target.

 

[TheThaiger]

I am too.

I'm reminded of attending a Super Bowl party years ago, where one of the women screamed at the TV, "Kill that MF! Rip his F-ing head off!"

Humans are the most violent species in history, and Americans are arguably the worst among cultures. We're in denial when it comes to "national pride".

If a typical American saw a muslim screaming "Iraq! Iraq!" or "Iran! Iran!" at a sports event, or most anywhere, s/he would be disgusted. When an American shouts "USA! USA!" in somebody's face, it's just good "patriotic" fun...

Your culture is very violent - mine (British) is, too. I have a mate who's a professional traveler that has been practically everywhere on the plant, and he says the only continent he worries about going to is the Americas - north for endemic violence and gun culture, and south because of the drug trade, itself fueled by ludicrous drug policies of the US. I have been to most continents myself, and am struck by how violence is predominantly a western, English speaking construct. It is simply not in Asian people's make-up to be violent. It is culturally taboo. Violence is seen as last resort rather than first strike.

In terms of national pride, your "USA, USA" chants are very intimidating, even to me who 'gets' it. It must scare the shit out of much of the world.

 

[TheThaiger]

I spend quite a bit of time in England and stay with relatives whenever I'm there. They are big sports fans. My relatives, who spend lots of time in America and attend American sporting events, have made the following observations about the difference between America and Europe:

1) In Europe, there are far more sporting events on television in which the participating teams are countries, or teams representing their countries (e.g., English teams like Manchester United and Arsenal playing football in the Champions League) than in the United States. English fans go crazy for these events, and it carries over into local sporting events. Except during the Olympics or World Cup, it is quite rare that a team represents America, so American fans rarely get to express national pride through sports.

2) Europe's heavy consumption of beer/ale has a unique origin in history. For most of European history, water quality was poor and beer/ale were considered by many to be safer to drink than water. This made the consumption of beer/ale extremely common, especially among the more affluent. Most of the wealthy had breweries on their own land at least up to 1700. The United States of America is just 235 years old, and the availability of drinkable water throughout most of its history explains why beer/ale could never have the same status as in Europe, where developing a taste for beer/ale was, for centuries, in the best interests of preserving one's health.

In short, European fans have more training in rooting passionately for teams that represent their countries, and drinking beer/ale is much more deeply embedded in their nature because of their history.

.... at least that's what I've been told.

So, yes, the way European fans conduct themselves at sporting events is a cultural difference.

I don't know about all that, but a few points...

1. American pool is a minority sport to say the least. One-off events like this happen once every two years, and are called the Mosconi Cup. That's it as far as set-piece international pool events in the UK go.

2. Pool has never attracted the high achievers here. I'm sure you can read between the lines...

3. It is important to separate the UK from the rest of Europe. The chanting, poor behaviour etc almost certainly came from British fans. Us Brits don't see ourselves as particularly European, and it's unlikely we ever will. We are more boorish than our Euro cousins, who are generally better educated and more reserved.

So, uniqueness + beer + the culture of British pool players = too much excitement. Still, I'd prefer that than library atmospheres and polite applause only at the end.

 

[molly's boy]

less classy ... no

Are English/Euor's spectators more "passionate" about their sports than the USA? Are they less classy, since they are inarguably more vocal and possibly (ahem...) a bit more rude as well?

How big of an impact might this difference make upon the outcome of a Mosconi Cup?

I am not discounting how good the Euro teams are - NOT my question.

As in the Ryder cup I think we just got beat...Remember this was a
"HOME" game for the Euros.. I think the home field is worth the
intangible number of matches..

 

[renard]

LOL. you are a easy target.

Tell me about it! LOL

 

[Pidge]

Would you rather them sit there and give out the occasional applause? That's boring as sheet.

USA vs EUR game types like the Ryder Cup and Mosconi Cup is all about home advantage. If your home fans aren't going to try their best, even if its seen as disrespectful, you might as well be playing in a neutral location. I expect the same treatment when the European team go to America. If a PRO is disheartened or distracted in any way they should find a new occupation...a nice little 9-5 in an office somewhere?

In the end the Mosconi Cup is only for fun! Its all about the braggin' rights, baby!

 

[sheffield6]

I don't know about all that, but a few points...

1. American pool is a minority sport to say the least. One-off events like this happen once every two years, and are called the Mosconi Cup. That's it as far as set-piece international pool events in the UK go.

2. Pool has never attracted the high achievers here. I'm sure you can read between the lines...

3. It is important to separate the UK from the rest of Europe. The chanting, poor behaviour etc almost certainly came from British fans. Us Brits don't see ourselves as particularly European, and it's unlikely we ever will. We are more boorish than our Euro cousins, who are generally better educated and more reserved.

So, uniqueness + beer + the culture of British pool players = too much excitement. Still, I'd prefer that than library atmospheres and polite applause only at the end.

dont know about that, the fans that looked the worst bahaved were holding a European flag, I dont know any English people that would touch a European flag.

 

[CJ Wiley]

From my experience it takes "uncomfortable" situations to grow and mature.

I absolutely loved the Cup. The fans were a huge part of it, they made it exciting. I hope we can put on an equally exciting event next year.

I thought the atmosphere was amazing overall. It was actually "tamer" than what I remember playing in 96 in Essex. Of course there were some "bad apples" in the crowd, and seriously is it really possible to "screen" them?

I told the team "we can not control the crowd, we can only control ourselves however, I know that's easier said than done, we just have to look at it like a personal challenge."

There's good and bad in every situation depending on what side we're on, I just think if the crowd had been on "their best behavior," the event would have bee much less desirable overall. It bothered all of our players to some extent and I think if you ask them they all learned something valuable that will be used in the future to strengthen their own games.

From my experience it takes "uncomfortable" situations to grow and mature. The Mosconi Cup makes you come to terms with any weakness you may have and deal with it. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[renard]

I thought the atmosphere was amazing overall. It was actually "tamer" than what I remember playing in 96 in Essex. Of course there were some "bad apples" in the crowd, and seriously is it really possible to "screen" them?

I told the team "we can not control the crowd, we can only control ourselves however, I know that's easier said than done, we just have to look at it like a personal challenge."

There's good and bad in every situation depending on what side we're on, I just think if the crowd had been on "their best behavior," the event would have bee much less desirable overall. It bothered all of our players to some extent and I think if you ask them they all learned something valuable that will be used in the future to strengthen their own games.

From my experience it takes "uncomfortable" situations to grow and mature. The Mosconi Cup makes you come to terms with any weakness you may have and deal with it. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Great post!

 

[Lock N Load]

Bottom line is....

Europe has idiots too. It was only a few that were the trouble makers just like here in the U.S. and all other countries that have people.

Ray

I think about the old saying, one bad apple, can spoil a whole barrel full!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[jamesroberts]

Disagree. It means that every rack is more important and you need to be focussed for every shot as you can't afford to get behind or think that losing 1 rack won't matter. If you were just letting the best player win the match every time then why even bother turning up..?

There is so much luck in a race to 5 anyone can beat anyone, I have never seen a big tournament or people gambling with races to 5 9 ball.
Its kinda silly, but it is what it is, a made for TV event.

 

[Bigtruck]

There is so much luck in a race to 5 anyone can beat anyone, I have never seen a big tournament or people gambling with races to 5 9 ball.
Its kinda silly, but it is what it is, a made for TV event.

I do it all the time. Race to 5, 9 Ball.

You should try it, it's exhilarating!! Do best out of 3 sets race to 5 9 ball for a (insert favorite amount).

fun fun fun. Lots of pressure too.

Ray

 

[Lock N Load]

I do it all the time. Race to 5, 9 Ball.

You should try it, it's exhilarating!! Do best out of 3 sets race to 5 9 ball for a (insert favorite amount).

fun fun fun. Lots of pressure too.

Ray

I know I will never play a race to 3 games 9 ball again. Gave the guy 1 game on the wire for $50.00. He also got the 7 ball. He won the coin flip and that was it. He made the 9 on the break. Broke again and the 7 was in the pocket with a combo from the 2 ball. After he made the 1 ball on the break. He has to go to a race to 9 games from now on with 3 games on the wire! Under 7 games race favors the weaker player. Or the player getting the weight! If you like a race to 5 games that is good for one of the players. Now on a bar box it is different all together. I might have gotten a shot if we were playing a race to 5 games!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[CJ Wiley]

when in England expect the pool crowd to be pool loud

I absolutely loved the Cup. The fans were a huge part of it, they made it exciting. I hope we can put on an equally exciting event next year.

Yes, it's the best pool crowd on earth. It does help to prepare for them or it can be pretty intense. Like I told the team "we can't control the crowd, we can only control ourselves, the crowd will be many things, but not an excuse."

I know it's easier said than done, however, "when in Rome do as the Romans," and "when in England expect the pool crowd to be pool loud." :wink:

 

[Pidge]

I think in a race to higher games, 15+ the better player will win 95% of the time, depending if weight is given fairly.
The way I see it is if I was playing a better player I'd want a race to 5 over a race to 11. I know I can run a 5pack but I don't think I'd stand a chance in a race to 11.

 

[Pidge]

Yes, it's the best pool crowd on earth. It does help to prepare for them or it can be pretty intense. Like I told the team "we can't control the crowd, we can only control ourselves, the crowd will be many things, but not an excuse."

I know it's easier said than done, however, "when in Rome do as the Romans," and "when in England expect the pool crowd to be pool loud." :wink:

Haha!

When in England, expect to come accross atleast 1 person that's had too many beers and is shouting obscenities towards you!

When I was at the cup I couldn't believe the abuse Shuff was getting. To quote a Simpsons line; The crowd "stepped so far over the line, the line looks like a dot".

But that's what its like on a Saturday night outside bars here. Drunken idiots that can't handle their beer and are looking to provoke decent people going about their business.

I expect the next cup held in our country to be less tolerant of such yobbish behaviour and eject people who step out of line. Shout for your country or continent as loud as you possibly can by all means but don't do it whilst the players are down on a shot and don't talk sh*t about players families. Not cool. I couldn't believe my eyes when seeing people in their late 40s twice my age acting like they skipped a step on the evolution scale.

Rant over

 

[inside_english]

I think you can look no further than the things that occur at soccer games in Europe, I have heard of urine bombs and other things that typical Americans would find repulsive. Lets be honest, a race to 5 9 ball is not real pool, anyone can beat anyone in a race to 5 so the Mosconi Cup is just a novelty, it in no way, shape or form represents the best player.

The Mosconi Cup seems to be some sort of pool circus, so of course there will be clowns.