cut angle and CB travel distance

S

sflguy

Registered
Hello All,

I am beginning to practice position drills, mainly 3 ball drill . I am always getting my CB either too short or or too long on next ball due to different cut angles, though I am using same speed.

I am wondering if there is any information available that would give me an idea of different cut angles and CB distance. I got some TA stuff from Dr.Dave's site, but it is too complex for me:sorry:.

Thanks in advance.
 
This is pretty much a feel thing. Keep poundin' balls and you'll develop the touch for these shots. Chipping in golf is very similar in that i could easily show you mechanics for the shot but getting the speed right is learned thru repitition.
 
sflguy said:
Hello All,

I am beginning to practice position drills, mainly 3 ball drill . I am always getting my CB either too short or or too long on next ball due to different cut angles, though I am using same speed.

I am wondering if there is any information available that would give me an idea of different cut angles and CB distance. I got some TA stuff from Dr.Dave's site, but it is too complex for me:sorry:.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
A couple of rules of thumb that might help:

CB and OB will travel about the same distance after contact with:
- half ball hit (30-degree cut) and rolling CB
- 45-degree cut and sliding CB
(in both of these cases the CB and OB will "fork" at equal angles)

CB will travel about 1/6 as far as OB after contact with:
- full hit and rolling CB

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:
sflguy said:
Hello All,

I am always getting my CB either too short or or too long on next ball due to different cut angles, though I am using same speed.

I am wondering if there is any information available that would give me an idea of different cut angles and CB distance. I got some TA stuff from Dr.Dave's site, but it is too complex for me:sorry:.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

If you're having trouble with understanding the TA then get someone to explain it while you're at the table. The TA deals with direction, not speed, which is what you were asking. Obviously as you cut a ball thinner & thinner it will travel further at any given speed. I don't know
of any charts or some such that show a relation between cut angle & speed but even if there were it won't help you much.

Initially, control of speed is learned thru practice & adjustment, much of which is done subconsciously. There are drills strictly for speed control which you can probably find on Dr. Daves or links from there. That 3 ball drill is designed to teach proper cut angles so you can go from one ball to the next easily while using the natural direction of the CB. It's kind of assumed that you'll use the correct speed to get to the right spot.

One thing I can tell you is that speed control will come quicker & easier if you have a solid repeatable stroke. If not you'll struggle. You've had a least one lesson from Scott Lee so I'm sure he addressed that with you. How are you doing on that front, is your stroke a lot better now. If not then I'd contact Scott & see if he can give you some help & direction.

One thing that helps with speed, especially on softer shots, is having a loose grip. Whenever I see someone that has trouble hitting a ball easy they always have too tight a grip.

That 3 ball drill is good but try to find some drills specifically for speed. If you spend some time on that you'll probably find yourself doing much better on the 3 ball one. When doing drills it's a good idea to only do one during any given session. Do the speed for awhile, then shoot some 8 ball or straight pool, then finish off with some more speed drills. The next session do the same thing with 3 ball. You'll pick them up faster that way.

Good Luck & I sent you a PM
 
sflguy said:
... I am beginning to practice position drills, mainly 3 ball drill . I am always getting my CB either too short or or too long on next ball due to different cut angles, though I am using same speed. ...
Click to expand...
There is more or less no real way to learn this except by repetition. There are a few rules of thumb such as the ones Pat J pointed out, but your arm has to learn what they mean.

If you are not successful with three balls as in the drill, see if you can do two balls. Stay at two balls until you can do five in a row most of the time. Remember that you can put the cue ball wherever you want for the first ball. If you screw up with a two-ball layout, try the same layout again until you can get position at least part of the time. If you come across a situation where you just can't get from one ball to the next even putting the cue ball where you want, post the position here (or in the "Ask The Instructor" forum) any maybe we can make specific suggestions.

In addition, practice simple position drills, like straight through follow shots and straight back draw shots with fairly easy shots. If you don't have those down at least a little, it will not be possible for you to get through three balls most of the time.
 
tnx

Patrick Johnson said:
A couple of rules of thumb that might help:

CB and OB will travel about the same distance after contact with:
- half ball hit (30-degree cut) and rolling CB
- 45-degree cut and sliding CB
(in both of these cases the CB and OB will "fork" at equal angles)

CB will travel about 1/6 as far as OB after contact with:
- full hit and rolling CB

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Thanks Patrick,

This is very useful, I am looking for few rules of thumb like these, just to give me some idea about distance and cuts, to help until I start developing good feel for it.
 
tnx

sparkle84 said:
If you're having trouble with understanding the TA then get someone to explain it while you're at the table. The TA deals with direction, not speed, which is what you were asking. Obviously as you cut a ball thinner & thinner it will travel further at any given speed. I don't know
of any charts or some such that show a relation between cut angle & speed but even if there were it won't help you much.

Initially, control of speed is learned thru practice & adjustment, much of which is done subconsciously. There are drills strictly for speed control which you can probably find on Dr. Daves or links from there. That 3 ball drill is designed to teach proper cut angles so you can go from one ball to the next easily while using the natural direction of the CB. It's kind of assumed that you'll use the correct speed to get to the right spot.

One thing I can tell you is that speed control will come quicker & easier if you have a solid repeatable stroke. If not you'll struggle. You've had a least one lesson from Scott Lee so I'm sure he addressed that with you. How are you doing on that front, is your stroke a lot better now. If not then I'd contact Scott & see if he can give you some help & direction.

One thing that helps with speed, especially on softer shots, is having a loose grip. Whenever I see someone that has trouble hitting a ball easy they always have too tight a grip.

That 3 ball drill is good but try to find some drills specifically for speed. If you spend some time on that you'll probably find yourself doing much better on the 3 ball one. When doing drills it's a good idea to only do one during any given session. Do the speed for awhile, then shoot some 8 ball or straight pool, then finish off with some more speed drills. The next session do the same thing with 3 ball. You'll pick them up faster that way.

Good Luck & I sent you a PM
Click to expand...


Thank you for the reply. I had a lesson with Scott 2 years ago and have been doing first 4 drills, my stroke is so much better now. But I started doing the speed drills just for a month or so and getting good at these drills, I still have ways to go to get better at speed control.

I will start limiting only one drill per session as mentioned, I did notice if I do more than few drill per session, it gets confusing.

Thank you for all the useful information and tips and PM.
 
IMHO what works best for a person depends on how that person sees/imagines the world. That's why aiming system A will work for player 1 but not player 2; while aiming system B works for player 2 but not for player 1. They just see/imagine the world in different ways.

Regarding speed I like to imagine the physics of the situation (don't be scared by the word "physics"; there's no math or such here): Your stroke transfers energy (speed) from the cue to the CB. The CB, in turn, transfers energy (speed) to the OB. But here's the key: the amount of energy (speed) transferred from the CB to the OB depends on the cut angle of the CB-OB hit. A full hit will transfer nearly all the CB's energy (speed) to the OB. A half-ball hit will transfer 50% (that's why the CB and OB travel the same distance after a half-ball hit). With a very thin cut angle the CB transfers only a little bit of energy (speed) to the OB; the OB only travels a short distance while the CB travels a long distance.

The half-ball hit's 50% transfer is a great reference point: the CB and OB will travel the same distance. But if the cut angle is less than 50% (more of a straight shot) the OB will go further than the CB. If it's more than 50% the opposite is true and the CB will go further than the OB.

Dr. Dave probably has a chart/table showing the percentage of energy transfer for each cut angle. Hopefully he'll see this thread.
 
This might help ...
 

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Srini...You worked with Randyg too, didn't you? This is something we call "speed tradeoff", and several posters gave you great information, some with some good diagrams. Basically, as mentioned, the 1/2 ball hit will be equal travel for both balls...a 1/4 ball hit will retain 75% of the stroke speed on the CB...and a 3/4 ball hit will retain only 25% of the stroke speed on the CB (obviously a stop shot transfers 100% from CB to OB). How far those balls travel will depend on how much speed you put into the stroke, but you can experiment pretty easily to get a good feel for it. MD 5, 6 & 7 are vital to learning this skill...especially 5 (which you say you're working on).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

sflguy said:
Thank you for the reply. I had a lesson with Scott 2 years ago and have been doing first 4 drills, my stroke is so much better now. But I started doing the speed drills just for a month or so and getting good at these drills, I still have ways to go to get better at speed control.

I will start limiting only one drill per session as mentioned, I did notice if I do more than few drill per session, it gets confusing.

Thank you for all the useful information and tips and PM.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Srini...You worked with Randyg too, didn't you? This is something we call "speed tradeoff", and several posters gave you great information, some with some good diagrams. Basically, as mentioned, the 1/2 ball hit will be equal travel for both balls...a 1/4 ball hit will retain 75% of the stroke speed on the CB...and a 3/4 ball hit will retain only 25% of the stroke speed on the CB (obviously a stop shot transfers 100% from CB to OB). How far those balls travel will depend on how much speed you put into the stroke, but you can experiment pretty easily to get a good feel for it. MD 5, 6 & 7 are vital to learning this skill...especially 5 (which you say you're working on).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

This is also on one of Bert Tapes (don't remember which), very helpful guide for learning about speed control.

Good stuff guys...

Pete
 
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