Except on draw shots. The majority of my sticks have 13mm ferrules which is fine with me. Replacements pop on right out the box. Ive been working on my draw stroke and finally realized a 13mm tip can't get low enough for power draw. I now believe table first strokes are the major cause of power draw dysfunction; missing on the horizontal a close second. I'd go down to 12mm (also a convenience decision) but can now see the fractional diameters would make a difference in my usage.
Cynergy 10.5 also good for Pool-Billard?
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Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I always thought 13mm would be a no go for me, but actually, "it's not the size, it's how you use" - that can apply to many things in life
- touch and timing are the main players in manoeuvring the CB. I stick within the 12-12.5 bracket for the most part, mostly that allows the taper dimensions that feel comfortable to me.
That’s not true.
I never insinuated it was worse, only stated it was more difficult to execute longer shots with a smaller tip. If your asking why a smaller tip can be more challenging on long shots , Ive already answered that for you in my last reply to you.
@Patrick Johnson youre kind of coming like a toddler in the "why phase"..
Any more questions use the google search little buddy..
@Patrick Johnson youre kind of coming like a toddler in the "why phase"..
Any more questions use the google search little buddy..
Actually it is. You can jack up more and nick the miscue limit but fact is the bed of the table is the biggest obstacle with a 13mm tip.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
9.5mm and below poses no problem on a 12foot table, this is a case of archer, not the arrow. I don't think it's objectively worse, but maybe it exposes flaws in your technique/cueing? I would say this would be marginal tbh, and mostly mental.I never insinuated it was worse, only stated it was more difficult to execute longer shots with a smaller tip. If your asking why a smaller tip can be more challenging on long shots , Ive already answered that for you in my last reply to you.
@Patrick Johnson youre kind of coming like a toddler in the "why phase"..
Any more questions use the google search little buddy..
edit: re-reading, I think this is what you are implying
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
That's been my experience. People talk about chalk but all the chalk in the world won't help you when the tip touches the cloth. I think a 13 mm tip can get low enough but a smaller tip may be beneficial, either visually or for a little extra clearance.
The miscue limit is 14.3mm from the cloth (1/2 the CB radius), which gives you plenty of room since your tip contact point is going to be about 4mm down from the top of your 13mm tip, leaving a clearance of 5.3mm from the cloth.
But if you’re hitting power draws at the miscue limit, you’re gonna have a hard time. Better to target about 80% of the way down from CB center to the limit, or 17.1mm from the cloth, because you get around 95% of the backspin with far lower chance of miscues. Now your 13mm tip has 8.1mm of table clearance - almost enough room to slip a snooker tip below it!
Or forget all the geometry of the shot, and go watch the great 9-ball players from the 80s and 90s draw the ball with fat shafts. Earl was playing last year with what looked to be a 17mm shaft — as you might guess, he drew the CB just fine.
If you’re having trouble with the power draw shot, your 13mm tip diameter is not to blame. If you’re hitting cloth first with it, you’re hitting too low.
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Power draw I never use and rarely ever need which is why 13 gets it done for how I hit ‘em
I actually never try to draw and just use a stun back
Draw makes things much harder I’ll use stun and follow easier to control
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
It does seem to be a commonly held belief that smaller tips are unforgiving, but like you, i believe the physics and the geometry suggest otherwise, assuming we are reasonably safe from the miscue limit.
A friend has a cue with a small tip, I think the smaller tip makes me feel like I am doing something precise but that seemed to be the real difference. I suppose a thinner shaft or different taper may rest in the bridge hand differently. I do seem to shoot more accurately with a stiffer shaft which tends to have a larger diameter.
Really? Then what did these mean?
Your last reply to me:
Since you evidently don't have answers, a Google search won't help (little buddy).Any more questions use the google search little buddy..
pj
chgo
Keep in mind I'm sussing this out once and for all on a public table that has never been vacuumed. It's not fresh climate controlled tourney grade but reasonably clean and based on my abilities, power draw should be doable but not with the big margins of fresh conditions.
The shaft alone and sliding flush on the table will get some backup before force will cross into a scoop dynamic. Hitting that spot with a smaller tip will diminish the scoop zone, allowing more force before scoop. This trend scales linearly (no better word} into normal stroking with a complete cue.
I gave you the answer already little buddy
I don’t know what all that means, but if a smaller tip gives you more confidence on a power draw shot, more power to ya.
It means at the fit limit, flush with the table, the smaller tip gets in tighter.
The problem for me is the follow through. I'm trying different 'solutions' and one is striking from a distance that includes follow through and pings the ball at speed. This works but will take development.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Watch how snooker players approach this, it will help you a lot. Timing. Judd Trump discusses this well (and is an absolute master of the long draw...as in he's screwing 10feet up table with precision). Allowing further between bridge and CB is imperative. Needs sweet timing, not power. I think that actually labelling it 'power' draw is giving the wrong impression. It's not got much to do with power to be honest. I also think tip size doesn't have a great deal to do with it beyond what's in the players head.
As I mentioned earlier, I think this is just Cuetec marketing to Chinese-8 players and a bigger pool of players with cash to burn.
Here’s an answer for you that I’ll bet you’re familiar with:
*plonk*
…little buddy.
pj
chgo
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Corr this forum loves a tiff
Trudat. For reference sake, what they call power draw on youtube is in fact normal draw with some post contact distance. What I'm calling power draw is the two rail, downtable, back up, and downtable shot that only tall aliens can do. Generating the cue speed alone is power.
The snooker draw I think is a function of the lightning conditions required of a big table. I can get one length back from across the table on a 9 footer - on Granito, it's almost a joke. On worn cloth and humidity, lucky if I get the ball coming back. I imagine that would upscale to a big table without too much difficulty.
One thing I don't like about the snooker shooters is they fearlessly bang on their elbows and chest to kill the cue travel. Certainly there's an injury related to this behavior.
And to prevent this derailment, snooker players use those tiny tips as do billiarders. lol
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Makes sense.
Also makes sense ... does depend on where you are playing though!
At first, having played snooker for a substantial period, my stroke was helpful while playing pool. But actually, there are some elements that don't crossover so well, and become a hinderance. I do still use my body to 'check' my stroke on long shots. But a full flowing stroke is something I have had to adjust slightly in my game to accommodate the more maneuvering styled play of American tables.One thing I don't like about the snooker shooters is they fearlessly bang on their elbows and chest to kill the cue travel. Certainly there's an injury related to this behavior.
Interestingly, this is not the case for me when playing Chinese-8, manoeuvring the balls with spin, or accommodating the difference in playing style relating to cloth and pockets, I still have more success with the more snooker style approach that is ingrained in me (I am not a coach or technically minded, so maybe I haven't worded this well. But hopefully the sentiment I want to share comes across)
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