Dave's Aiming Method (DAM)

9Ballr said:
I love how Tor Lowry calls the aiming system he uses the "Natural Aiming System".

What does it consist of?

Drill the shot as often as it takes until you can pocket that ball naturally from the given position. Be it 15 times or 2000 times.
Do it again and again and again.....same shot.....sounds familiar.....?
Yes of course!
Most of the best pool players in the world have gotten where they are by doing it just like that.
Wanna play like a pro? Start DRILLING the same shots again and again!
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Making the ball is only half of a shot. Getting position for the next is the other half. There are two parts to a shot.....putting the OB where you want and the CB where you want.

Practicing just making a ball without trying to put the CB in a certain position is only practicing 1/2 a shot.

When I do single ball drills now, it is more about putting the CB somewhere than just making the ball. I will use all types of spin and stroke speed doing a single ball drill in order to see what the CB does after making the OB.

I try to put the CB at a certain point on the table after making the OB.
 
Colonel said:
MAD about how badly you play, then flip that MAD around with DAM
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I found the DVD artwork...
MAD.jpg
 
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Sloppy Pockets said:
You are missing the point. A player should be able to mention their ideas about aiming in the Main Forum without having them moved by default to a section that nobody goes except to argue and put other folks down. Thanks to guys like you, aiming - a most fundamental part of the game - has been relegated to an obscure sub-forum where practical advice on the matter is essentially absent.

BTW why do you say "guys like you" when referring to me? I'm not even an "aiming guy" in any devoted kind of way (I do aim, though), I just feel these people should have the right to express their opinions without ridicule. Personally, I have never started a thread about aiming on the Main Forum that I am aware of. I won't be starting any on the Aiming Forum, either, now that I see what comes out of it.

Pathetic attempt for attention? Hilarious, coming from a guy who just had to play a guy way below your skill level for $10K in front of a live audience, streamed over the interwebs so that everybody could see you (complete with your own introduction song, and even smoke for Gawd's sake). Then after you finished robbing him in broad daylight, you just had to start a multi-part thread telling us all about your magnificent victory. But NO-O-O-O-O... you're not an attention whore, are ya?:rolleyes:

You, sir, are the Prince of Pride.
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The Management here are the ones who decided, a long time ago, that the topic of aiming was too toxic for the Main Forum. That's why it has its own "obscure" section, so sad for youze guys. I'm sorry you feel that you aiming guys have some kind of right to advocate your theories sans criticism. Please join the line of guys advocating for the existence of Sasquatch, little green men, and unicorns and ask them for a Kleenex

Yes, I did ask JB to play. It's a pool forum. Most of the polls here in the run up to the match showed him to be the favorite and the final score was 9-6. Hardly a blow out. I should also note that it was JB that insisted/demanded the match be held in the Accu-Stats Arena and be streamed live so that the memory of the match would be "forever burned into my memory." He was so ate up about it that he paid Pat Fleming to move a GC into the Arena and paid for the set up and personnel for the stream. We had over 800 viewers. As to the story, after the match I had numerous PMs and emails asking when was I going to write it up. (Believe it or not, many folks enjoy my writing :-) I originally had no plans to do so but I enjoy writing, so I did it.

Maybe someday you'll have a pool experience people will ask you to write about and share.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
The Management here are the ones who decided, a long time ago, that the topic of aiming was too toxic for the Main Forum. That's why it has its own "obscure" section, so sad for youze guys. I'm sorry you feel that you aiming guys have some kind of right to advocate your theories sans criticism. Please join the line of guys advocating for the existence of Sasquatch, little green men, and unicorns and ask them for a Kleenex

Yes, I did ask JB to play. It's a pool forum. Most of the polls here in the run up to the match showed him to be the favorite and the final score was 9-6. Hardly a blow out. I should also note that it was JB that insisted/demanded the match be held in the Accu-Stats Arena and be streamed live so that the memory of the match would be "forever burned into my memory." He was so ate up about it that he paid Pat Fleming to move a GC into the Arena and paid for the set up and personnel for the stream. We had over 800 viewers. As to the story, after the match I had numerous PMs and emails asking when was I going to write it up. (Believe it or not, many folks enjoy my writing :-) I originally had no plans to do so but I enjoy writing, so I did it.

Maybe someday you'll have a pool experience people will ask you to write about and share.

Lou Figueroa
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Hi Lou,

You've hit on one of the main issues & that is that a certain group has no regard for the actual facts of matters.

They want to, need to, & do make up their own facts in order to give the impression that they want to give.

I was not here back in the day before the aiming sub forum & had never heard of CTE before coming on here,

Was it aiming discussion in general that required it being sent into a sub forum...

or was it just the CTE 'discussions' that required it to be sent into a sub forum.

Was it because of Hal Houle or was it when Stan came on line with his version?

Thanks in advance for any history update you might provide me.

PS1 There was a time when I was a bit down on you for some of what I saw you doing & saying, but I have come to understand exactly why you were doing what you were.

PS2 Also, I understand that Hal Houle was a very generous man & would not sell his thinking. Do you know if that is true?
 
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lfigueroa said:
The Management here are the ones who decided, a long time ago, that the topic of aiming was too toxic for the Main Forum. That's why it has its own "obscure" section, so sad for youze guys. I'm sorry you feel that you aiming guys have some kind of right to advocate your theories sans criticism. Please join the line of guys advocating for the existence of Sasquatch, little green men, and unicorns and ask them for a Kleenex

Yes, I did ask JB to play. It's a pool forum. Most of the polls here in the run up to the match showed him to be the favorite and the final score was 9-6. Hardly a blow out. I should also note that it was JB that insisted/demanded the match be held in the Accu-Stats Arena and be streamed live so that the memory of the match would be "forever burned into my memory." He was so ate up about it that he paid Pat Fleming to move a GC into the Arena and paid for the set up and personnel for the stream. We had over 800 viewers. As to the story, after the match I had numerous PMs and emails asking when was I going to write it up. (Believe it or not, many folks enjoy my writing :-) I originally had no plans to do so but I enjoy writing, so I did it.

Maybe someday you'll have a pool experience people will ask you to write about and share.

Lou Figueroa
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Guys like you, Dr. Dave, Pat, etc. made the topic of aiming "toxic". There is nothing inherently toxic about aiming itself. Everybody does it. Now, I suppose youze guys could make banking toxic over there on the Brumback thread if you wanted to. Then we could have a separate and obscure "Banking" sub-forum.

Shit, maybe I could make every pool-related topic toxic if I was willing to waste more of my precious life here than I already do. Cue making, pro players opinions, promoter and TD actions, product development... wait.. they're already toxic. Damn, this whole effen place is toxic. Let's get rid of the whole GD message board while we're at it. 'Cause that's where it's headed, thanks to grown men like yourself who insist on behaving like schoolboys instead of gentlemen. Oh, yeah... forgot this is pool, where such behavior is not only permitted, it is outright encouraged.

As far as the "Big Match" goes, everybody knows JB is as big a narcissist as you are, maybe even bigger. I have no problem with you robbing him, he's a big boy and got what he asked for. I was just pointing out how much you reveled in all the glory you earned while basking in the limelight of taking apart an inferior player. But, ya know, you could have told him you refused to have your own intro music and silly WWF/MMA smoke show. No matter, I had a lot of fun laughing at you about it. Lol

Sure, I like your writing when it is positive and poignant like some of your stuff I've read. No Pulitzer Prize coming your way, I suspect, but you do have a flair for words. I'm told I'm pretty good myself, so maybe I'll write a nice pool story and submit it for your approval. Right now all I got is the time I made love to my girlfriend on top of the pool table in my college dorm. I won't share the juicy details of that experience with a bunch of pool players, but it does giving special meaning to my screen name here on AZB.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Right now all I got is the time I made love to my girlfriend on top of the pool table in my college dorm. I won't share the juicy details of that experience with a bunch of pool players, but it does giving special meaning to my screen name here on AZB.
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That was funny. I am sure it brings up memories for more than a few of the wonderful college years and all those just left home for the first time girls...It did for me! :)
 
ENGLISH! said:
Was it aiming discussion in general that required it being sent into a sub forum...

or was it just the CTE 'discussions' that required it to be sent into a sub forum.

Was it because of Hal Houle or was it when Stan came on line with his version?
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The controversy has mostly centered around fractional-ball (including Hal Houle's 3-angle system), CTE, and other pivot-based aiming systems (90/90 included), and the controversy existed long before Stan came on the scene with his Pro-One version. In fact, I think there was even more controversy before Stan came on the scene concerning the many earlier versions of CTE. Most of the direct quotes and paraphrases in my spoofy DAM marketing parody came from posts people made long before Stan started participating in discussions.

Having said all of this, I have always done my best to point out and explain the many benefits these sorts of aiming systems can offer. I have also done my best to help explain and illustrate how and why the systems actually work for the people who can use them effectively.

Regards,
Dave

PS: If you or others are really curious, check out all of the resource pages linked above, and try to reserve any discussion and debate for the Aiming sub-forum, where it belongs.
 
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Personally, I am thankful for these discussions going down in the main forum. I never read the aiming forum. (Perhaps I should) incredibly to me, I learned about fractional hitting\CTE, or whatever it's called on this forum. It's been pretty eye opening as another tool to add to my toolbox. For shots I can recognize as half ball hits, it's nice to pretty much KNOW you are going to make it...anyway, funny post Dave! Thank you for all the resources you have shared. I love them, and KNOW I am a better player after finding this site. (And I think that should be one of the main goals of the site!!!)

Slightly off topic, but I saw him mentioned in this thread...Tor's videos are AWESOME too. Highly recommended!!!
 
puma122 said:
Personally, I am thankful for these discussions going down in the main forum. I never read the aiming forum. (Perhaps I should) incredibly to me, I learned about fractional hitting\CTE, or whatever it's called on this forum. It's been pretty eye opening as another tool to add to my toolbox. For shots I can recognize as half ball hits, it's nice to pretty much KNOW you are going to make it...anyway, funny post Dave! Thank you for all the resources you have shared. I love them, and KNOW I am a better player after finding this site. (And I think that should be one of the main goals of the site!!!)

Slightly off topic, but I saw him mentioned in this thread...Tor's videos are AWESOME too. Highly recommended!!!
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Hi Puma,

I think some refer to CTE & have a completely different interpretation or understanding of what is meant from the reference to it by Stan Shuffett.

Fractional while actually & truly can be similar to Stan's CTE, I don't think you mean CTE the way that he does & I don't think you're referring to the same thing.(I could be wrong)

I think that is part of the issue when some say that it, CTE, works, or it's nice, or they are thankful for it, etc. because they are not talking about the exact same method & especially not the why it is supposed to work.

Are you using the CTE line in conjunctions with the edge of the cue ball to other points on the object ball then using a defined pivot in one direction or the other?

And do you believe that it is that system that is responsible for you pocketing shots because it is connected to all 2:1 ratio tables & it takes you to the true & actual center pocket shot line with a natural built in slight over cut so as to counter any collision induced throw?

If not, then you are not using Stan Shuffett's CTE.

Did I mis-read what you were saying?

Thanks in advance for any clarification,
Rick
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi Puma,

I think some refer to CTE & have a completely different interpretation or understanding of what is meant from the reference to it by Stan Shuffett.

Fractional while actually & truly can be similar to Stan's CTE, I don't think you mean CTE the way that he does & I don't think you're referring to the same thing.(I could be wrong)

I think that is part of the issue when some say that it, CTE, works, or it's nice, or they are thankful for it, etc. because they are not talking about the exact same method & especially not the why it is supposed to work.

Are you using the CTE line in conjunctions with the edge of the cue ball to other points on the object ball then using a defined pivot in one direction or the other?

And do you believe that it is that system that is responsible for you pocketing shots because it is connected to all 2:1 ratio tables & it takes you to the true & actual center pocket shot line with a natural built in slight over cut so as to counter any collision induced throw?

If not, then you are not using Stan Shuffett's CTE.

Did I mis-read what you were saying?

Thanks in advance for any clarification,
Rick
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Hi Rick,

I do not know what Stan's method is, and I saw something in Dave's literature about pivot point...I have chosen to NOT read that...I like to focus on a thing or two new at a time, make it second nature, and then evaluate other methods to add to the tool box.

When I say fractional aiming, I am talking about half ball hit most of all, but also quarter and three quarter. Most of my focus up to this point has been half ball hit. I've taken the diagrams and set up half ball hits and hit them many times. To keep myself interested, I then play with speed to get to different spots along the return track. I also play with different lengths to the same shot. I try to memorize exactly what the shot looks like when it's half ball. If I run into a different shot in game, but it looks like a half ball hit based on my memorization, I play half ball! If I run into a shot in game, where the balls lie pretty much in the same spots as the various half ball shots I've practiced, I feel VERY confident I am going to drop it in the back of the pocket. The half ball hit also gives me a point of reference. I come up to a shot, think it looks close to half ball, so I start with half ball and make the minor adjustment. I cannot say I always do it, but am trying to use it as a tool when it's laying right. I've done the same with quarter and three quarter, but much less. My comfort level with those are not good...yet.

Sorry if this is way off topic to the forum police! :)
 
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puma122 said:
Hi Rick,

I do not know what Stan's method is, and I saw something in Dave's literature about pivot point...I have chosen to NOT read that...I like to focus on a thing or two new at a time, make it second nature, and then evaluate other methods to add to the tool box.

When I say fractional aiming, I am talking about half ball hit most of all, but also quarter and three quarter. Most of my focus up to this point has been half ball hit. I've taken the diagrams and set up half ball hits and hit them many times. To keep myself interested, I then play with speed to get to different spots along the return track. I also play with different lengths to the same shot. I try to memorize exactly what the shot looks like when it's half ball. If I run into a different shot in game, but it looks like a half ball hit based on my memorization, I play half ball! If I run into a shot in game, where the balls lie pretty much in the same spots as the various half ball shots I've practiced, I feel VERY confident I am going to drop it in the back of the pocket. The half ball hit also gives me a point of reference. I come up to a shot, think it looks close to half ball, so I start with half ball and make the minor adjustment. I cannot say I always do it, but am trying to use it as a tool when it's laying right. I've done the same with quarter and three quarter, but much less. My comfort level with those are not good...yet.

Sorry if this is way off topic to the forum police! :)
Click to expand...

Thanks much for the reply.

No forum police here, just the opposite.

I just thought I saw a possible mis-statement or mis-understanding.

You're not using what would generally be called CTE but instead what would be called Fractional or the 1/2 ball hit reference.

When, as a young teenager, I went from ghost ball, though my Dad never used that phrase, I went to what I thought was a form of fractional but I very very quickly went from it to what is more equal & opposite fractional overlap but based on the actual contact point. So it would not be 1/4 ball overlap but might be 3/8 or 5/16 because I never thought of it in any number form.

If you are using the cte line as a main reference you might want to look into CJ Wiley's TOI method & perhaps do a variation.

Are you familiar with TOI? If so, I will not go into it here.

Anyway, Thanks Again for the reply.

Stay & Shoot Well & All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
 
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ENGLISH! said:
If you are using the cte line as a main reference you might want to look into CJ Wiley's TOI method & perhaps do a variation.

Are you familiar with TOI? If so, I will not go into here.

Anyway, Thanks Again for the reply.

Stay & Shoot Well & All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
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I have seen discussion of it here, but do not know it. I will try to find it, and have a shot at incorporating to see if it has positive results for me! Thanks for the input, and all the best to you also.
 
puma122 said:
I have seen discussion of it here, but do not know it. I will try to find it, and have a shot at incorporating to see if it has positive results for me! Thanks for the input, and all the best to you also.
Click to expand...

In TOI one wants to select an undercut alignment & then cue just a tad parallel inside to add cut to that undercut alignment because of the CB squirt.

At CJ's level he just uses CTC & CTE alignments.

I had a bit of trouble getting to that level perhaps because I'm now using LD shafts. So, I added the alignment of center CB to the 1/2 way point between center & edge.

The reverse can be done if you see a cte alignment as an over cut by cueing a tad parallel to the outside & using the squirt of the CB to hit more full.

This method, TOI, really takes the pressure of aiming a shot very much out of the picture.

It is similar in theory for that aspect to Stan's CTE.

Also if one is not comfortable using the squirt of the cue ball, one could make the parallel shift & then pivot back to center.

Just some food for thought.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick
 
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Dr. Dave, I know all about the DAM system as I learned it in 1959 while in the USAF. But for the fact that I was in the Far East at the time and an old Mama San showed it to me I didn't recall it 'til just now when you smugly called it your own system. Liar liar pants on fire. If you send me 1/2 the proceeds from the not yet published DVD I promise to keep my mouth shut. You've got 90 days to respond or the DAM system will blow up the internet. Warning, you've been warned. Mitch
 
nine o nine said:
Dr. Dave, I know all about the DAM system as I learned it in 1959 while in the USAF. But for the fact that I was in the Far East at the time and an old Mama San showed it to me I didn't recall it 'til just now when you smugly called it your own system. Liar liar pants on fire. If you send me 1/2 the proceeds from the not yet published DVD I promise to keep my mouth shut. You've got 90 days to respond or the DAM system will blow up the internet. Warning, you've been warned. Mitch
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Go for it. I like explosions of useful information. ;)

Regards,
Dave
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi Lou,

You've hit on one of the main issues & that is that a certain group has no regard for the actual facts of matters.

They want to, need to, & do make up their own facts in order to give the impression that they want to give.

I was not here back in the day before the aiming sub forum & had never heard of CTE before coming on here,

Was it aiming discussion in general that required it being sent into a sub forum...

or was it just the CTE 'discussions' that required it to be sent into a sub forum.

Was it because of Hal Houle or was it when Stan came on line with his version?

Thanks in advance for any history update you might provide me.

PS1 There was a time when I was a bit down on you for some of what I saw you doing & saying, but I have come to understand exactly why you were doing what you were.

PS2 Also, I understand that Hal Houle was a very generous man & would not sell his thinking. Do you know if that is true?
Click to expand...


Aiming discussions have *always* devolved into CTE flame tests, going back to RSB. It has such a strong gravitational pull, it's like a black hole from which nothing, not even light, can escape.

To the best of my knowledge Hal never tried to make money off his systems but that doesn't mean he wasn't selling something. He really and truly believed and was always reaching out to try and convince one party or another. Many years ago he even called me at home one afternoon and wanted to know if I had a pool table nearby so he could talk me through CTE.

It's unfortunate in a way. Believe me, there has been more than one off-line conversation about what a great contribution he could have made if instead of the cockamamy stuff, he had shared his experiences on the road with guys like Ralph Greenleaf.

Lou Figueroa
 
Aiming Conversation Lasted what 2 days on the Main

Well this conversation last what 2 days on the Main.

I have to say, lasted at least a day longer than I expected.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Guys like you, Dr. Dave, Pat, etc. made the topic of aiming "toxic". There is nothing inherently toxic about aiming itself. Everybody does it. Now, I suppose youze guys could make banking toxic over there on the Brumback thread if you wanted to. Then we could have a separate and obscure "Banking" sub-forum.

Shit, maybe I could make every pool-related topic toxic if I was willing to waste more of my precious life here than I already do. Cue making, pro players opinions, promoter and TD actions, product development... wait.. they're already toxic. Damn, this whole effen place is toxic. Let's get rid of the whole GD message board while we're at it. 'Cause that's where it's headed, thanks to grown men like yourself who insist on behaving like schoolboys instead of gentlemen. Oh, yeah... forgot this is pool, where such behavior is not only permitted, it is outright encouraged.

As far as the "Big Match" goes, everybody knows JB is as big a narcissist as you are, maybe even bigger. I have no problem with you robbing him, he's a big boy and got what he asked for. I was just pointing out how much you reveled in all the glory you earned while basking in the limelight of taking apart an inferior player. But, ya know, you could have told him you refused to have your own intro music and silly WWF/MMA smoke show. No matter, I had a lot of fun laughing at you about it. Lol

Sure, I like your writing when it is positive and poignant like some of your stuff I've read. No Pulitzer Prize coming your way, I suspect, but you do have a flair for words. I'm told I'm pretty good myself, so maybe I'll write a nice pool story and submit it for your approval. Right now all I got is the time I made love to my girlfriend on top of the pool table in my college dorm. I won't share the juicy details of that experience with a bunch of pool players, but it does giving special meaning to my screen name here on AZB.
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Baloney. You guys just overact, so here you are again in the playpen.

As to certain circumstances re my match with JB, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Here, let me help you: the intro music and lights (and I think there even may have been a fog machine) were the doings of Ed, the Sandcastle room owner in NJ. Initially, in the months before the match, I had several telephone conversations with Ed and told him I wanted no part of theme music and lights -- not even the promo material he developed. But he was relentless and finally I gave in because he was being very gracious about the whole thing and really wanted to pump up the event and have a nice professional production for the live audience in attendance, as well as for the streaming audience. I mean, the guy wore a three-piece suit to MC the thing.

In hindsight, it was all cool and I don't regret it.

Lou Figueroa
 
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