Dave's Aiming Method (DAM)

[336Robin]

It was cool

Baloney. You guys just overact, so here you are again in the playpen.

As to certain circumstances re my match with JB, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Here, let me help you: the intro music and lights (and I think there even may have been a fog machine) were the doings of Ed, the Sandcastle room owner in NJ. Initially, in the months before the match, I had several telephone conversations with Ed and told him I wanted no part of theme music and lights -- not even the promo material he developed. But he was relentless and finally I gave in because he was being very gracious about the whole thing and really wanted to pump up the event and have a nice professional production for the live audience in attendance, as well as for the streaming audience. I mean, the guy wore a three-piece suit to MC the thing.

In hindsight, it was all cool and I don't regret it.

Lou Figueroa

The only thing that was bad about that whole affair was John had no business playing you, unless he had a spot. It was pretty one sided and a man got a lesson, you would think he would just let it rest.

 

[dr_dave]

Frankly, I'm more than a little disappointed that you chose to post this rework of your "classic" aiming system, since you are well aware of the animosity this has cause between yourself and a certain well-respected teacher of a popular aiming system.

I think it is important to not confuse my spoofy DAM marketing parody from the actual "aiming system" I use and recommend. The second part is actually serious ... and useful, IMO.

I know some people have been offended by my marketing spoof, but people need to realize that the vast majority of the statements in that parody are actually either direct quotes or reasonable paraphrases of what "aiming system" proponents and supporters have written in many past threads over many, many years (long before people like Stan came on the scene). In other words, I didn't actually make this stuff up. Others did. I merely put the quotes and paraphrases together into a single cohesive (and comical) marketing pitch. If people object to the message of my parody, they should complain to the "aiming system" proponents who actually wrote this stuff.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I think it is important to not confuse my spoofy DAM marketing parody from the actual "aiming system" I use and recommend. The second part is actually serious ... and useful, IMO.

I know some people have been offended by my marketing spoof, but people need to realize that the vast majority of the statements in that parody are actually either direct quotes or reasonable paraphrases of what "aiming system" proponents and supporters have written in many past threads over many, many years (long before people like Stan came on the scene). In other words, I didn't actually make this stuff up. Others did. I merely put the quotes and paraphrases together into a single cohesive (and comical) marketing pitch. If people object to the message of my parody, they should complain to the "aiming system" proponents who actually wrote this stuff.

Regards,
Dave

But you do know that it reflects on Stan now - and that he is offended by it - and not only will you not take it down from your site, you just had to repost it here. Sorry, but you are wrong. Just because you have a bunch of yahoos here cheering you on doesn't make it any better than what ENGRISH! keeps on doing here.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

You guys just overact, so here you are again in the playpen.

Again with the "you guys" crap. Bullshit is what I say. I have never been a part of the CTE wars. Dave Segal actually lumps me in with "you guys", so what am I, a member of both camps?

I'm a sight line aimer, and always have been since I was a kid. Sure, I am aware of ghost ball theory, and why it works like a charm (only it really doesn't), but I always perceive the line through the centers to see the correct angle and try my best to get my feet in the right place so my cue ends up on the right line.

From there I shoot directly into the OB, at whatever my cue is pointing at when I am down on the shot. Usually it's the OB, unless the cut is more than about 45º, at which point I shoot straight into the rail at the point beyond the OB that the line extends to. These last few years I've learned how to use the edge of the shaft (like Shane or Lassiter) to aim at the contact point, and that works up to about 45º as well. The balls roll over the edge of the shelf pretty good for me that way.

So why am I suddenly interested in CTE? Because it gets your feet in the right place EVERY TIME. If I unconsciously adjust a bit from that point (not quite sure if you can or can't shoot this way without doing that) is irrelevant to me. The hardest part is getting your feet in the exact correct spot, because once you do that your eyes will tell you what you need to do to get down on the shot (or sweep into it, or whatever). And it flat out freakin' works for me, which is all I care about.

So, take your little war elsewhere, buddy, I ain't fighting in it. You drew first blood here with me today. I got my licks back, but now I have no further use for you and your shenanigans.

 

[lfigueroa]

Again with the "you guys" crap. Bullshit is what I say. I have never been a part of the CTE wars. Dave Segal actually lumps me in with "you guys", so what am I, a member of both camps?

I'm a sight line aimer, and always have been since I was a kid. Sure, I am aware of ghost ball theory, and why it works like a charm (only it really doesn't), but I always perceive the line through the centers to see the correct angle and try my best to get my feet in the right place so my cue ends up on the right line.

From there I shoot directly into the OB, at whatever my cue is pointing at when I am down on the shot. Usually it's the OB, unless the cut is more than about 45º, at which point I shoot straight into the rail at the point beyond the OB that the line extends to. These last few years I've learned how to use the edge of the shaft (like Shane or Lassiter) to aim at the contact point, and that works up to about 45º as well. The balls roll over the edge of the shelf pretty good for me that way.

So why am I suddenly interested in CTE? Because it gets your feet in the right place EVERY TIME. If I unconsciously adjust a bit from that point (not quite sure if you can or can't shoot this way without doing that) is irrelevant to me. The hardest part is getting your feet in the exact correct spot, because once you do that your eyes will tell you what you need to do to get down on the shot (or sweep into it, or whatever). And it flat out freakin' works for me, which is all I care about.

So, take your little war elsewhere, buddy, I ain't fighting in it. You drew first blood here with me today. I got my licks back, but now I have no further use for you and your shenanigans.

Puh-leeese.

You have said CTE works for you and referred to those that disagree with the "concept" as "the anti-CTE goon squad."

Come out of the closet. Own it.

Lou Figueroa
we'll respect you
in the morning

 

[duckie]

Again with the "you guys" crap. Bullshit is what I say. I have never been a part of the CTE wars. Dave Segal actually lumps me in with "you guys", so what am I, a member of both camps?

I'm a sight line aimer, and always have been since I was a kid. Sure, I am aware of ghost ball theory, and why it works like a charm (only it really doesn't), but I always perceive the line through the centers to see the correct angle and try my best to get my feet in the right place so my cue ends up on the right line.

From there I shoot directly into the OB, at whatever my cue is pointing at when I am down on the shot. Usually it's the OB, unless the cut is more than about 45º, at which point I shoot straight into the rail at the point beyond the OB that the line extends to. These last few years I've learned how to use the edge of the shaft (like Shane or Lassiter) to aim at the contact point, and that works up to about 45º as well. The balls roll over the edge of the shelf pretty good for me that way.

So why am I suddenly interested in CTE? Because it gets your feet in the right place EVERY TIME. If I unconsciously adjust a bit from that point (not quite sure if you can or can't shoot this way without doing that) is irrelevant to me. The hardest part is getting your feet in the exact correct spot, because once you do that your eyes will tell you what you need to do to get down on the shot (or sweep into it, or whatever). And it flat out freakin' works for me, which is all I care about.

So, take your little war elsewhere, buddy, I ain't fighting in it. You drew first blood here with me today. I got my licks back, but now I have no further use for you and your shenanigans.

"Gets your feet in the right position" is another bullshit myth.

Where your feet go all depends on the shooting position required for the shot, nothing more.

I'm right handed, meaning I normally shoot with my left foot forward, but there are some shots where I shoot with my right foot forward cause it's easier to get into shooting position that way.

It gets stares when I do that cause tradional, non out of the box thinking never includes shooting goofy footed.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Aiming discussions have *always* devolved into CTE flame tests, going back to RSB. It has such a strong gravitational pull, it's like a black hole from which nothing, not even light, can escape.

To the best of my knowledge Hal never tried to make money off his systems but that doesn't mean he wasn't selling something. He really and truly believed and was always reaching out to try and convince one party or another. Many years ago he even called me at home one afternoon and wanted to know if I had a pool table nearby so he could talk me through CTE.

It's unfortunate in a way. Believe me, there has been more than one off-line conversation about what a great contribution he could have made if instead of the cockamamy stuff, he had shared his experiences on the road with guys like Ralph Greenleaf.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks Lou,

Was Hal's main 'selling' point that it was "an objective system" or was he just pushing a method that he thought or knew worked well?

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Baloney. You guys just overact, so here you are again in the playpen.

As to certain circumstances re my match with JB, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Here, let me help you: the intro music and lights (and I think there even may have been a fog machine) were the doings of Ed, the Sandcastle room owner in NJ. Initially, in the months before the match, I had several telephone conversations with Ed and told him I wanted no part of theme music and lights -- not even the promo material he developed. But he was relentless and finally I gave in because he was being very gracious about the whole thing and really wanted to pump up the event and have a nice professional production for the live audience in attendance, as well as for the streaming audience. I mean, the guy wore a three-piece suit to MC the thing.

In hindsight, it was all cool and I don't regret it.

Lou Figueroa

Well Lou,

Since I have just been called less than useless by Sloopy, I may as well point out that SOME of a certain group does not give a rat's you know what about FACTS.

It'a all about telling stories in order to give a certain impression hoping that it will stick with a certain number of readers even if it is set right & corrected by the party being attacked or possibly even someone else.

They also do almost nothing discussing the facts of matters. They almost only attack the individual in a variety of ways.

It's a tactic that is used when a side is out of legitimate arguments, IF they ever had any, & is left with nothing but resorting to making personal disparagements.

Actual facts mean nothing to SOME of them.

Like I said, I've come to understand why I may have misinterpreted some of the things that I saw you do & say.

My Apologies for past mistakes.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[lfigueroa]

Thanks Lou,

Was Hal's main 'selling' point that it was "an objective system" or was he just pushing a method that he thought or knew worked well?

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

My opinion is that Hal was selling his systems as being objective. If any are so inclined, here is an interesting discussion of his three point/dot system from RSB. All the usual suspects show up, including Smorg:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.billiard/7ah7h04VtFs[1-25]

Over 200 posts and it's the same ol' same ol'. 13 years later, nothing has changed.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

My opinion is that Hal was selling his systems as being objective.

This is total BULLSH!T! Hal didn't sell anything, he SHARED his knowledge and experience for free. The word "objective" or "subjective" was never used and never came up in any conversation. It only started here as another angle to attack CTE from Pat Johnson and ENGLISH.

Over 200 posts and it's the same ol' same ol'. 13 years later, nothing has changed.

Lou Figueroa

That's correct and neither have you changed Lou. Gotta admit you are very consistent being a clueless liar now as you were 13 years ago. Here you still are thumping your bass drum and big mouth as one of the original and primary instigators. I guess you took it personally when Hal thought you were one of the biggest flaming (insert appropriate description here) he ever came across as he laughed heartily at you.

Too bad he didn't get another huge belly laugh from ENGLISH which would have had tears running down his eyes from the buffoonish posts he makes.

What a great pair, Lou and English. Two geriatrics with incontinence problems and nothing better to do than whine about CTE. How many more years of this?

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Puh-leeese.

You have said CTE works for you and referred to those that disagree with the "concept" as "the anti-CTE goon squad."

Come out of the closet. Own it.

Lou Figueroa
we'll respect you
in the morning

Oh, give me a break. I'm a 40-year woodworker and have $20K worth of fine hand tools I've collected over those years. I also have a chainsaw that "works for me". I understand the concept of a chainsaw very well, and can maintain, sharpen, and use it like a champ. Does that make me a "chainsaw guy"? Or am I a woodworker who chooses to use the appropriate tool for the job at hand?

I'll tell you what I am one of, and that's one of the decent guys here who gets tired of folks like you who get more enjoyment out of putting others down than most of us get out of the game itself. I usually keep silent while you go at other people here, but you came at me, so I fired back. Sorry if your butt hurts so bad. Looks like I'll have to buy some stock in aloe vera bath tissue since you seem to be needing a lot of it.

Now go make yourself a nice cup of cappuccino with that cool La Pavoni espresso maker you have and chill out for Christ sake. Wish I had one, but the wife won't let me clutter up our precious counter space with it.

 

[ENGLISH!]

My opinion is that Hal was selling his systems as being objective. If any are so inclined, here is an interesting discussion of his three point/dot system from RSB. All the usual suspects show up, including Smorg:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.billiard/7ah7h04VtFs[1-25]

Over 200 posts and it's the same ol' same ol'. 13 years later, nothing has changed.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks Lou, for providing that link. I very quickly came upon this:

Play4aBuck

2/18/03


Jim Wyant wrote in message ...

>
>A few important aspects regarding the missed shots. In my experience, I
>miss these shots for one of three reasons:
>
>1) I simply muffed the shot - either aim or stroke. Sounds like you
>discounted that problem.


I marked the table to allow me to repeat the same shot many times. I tried
shooting soft, hard, with draw/follow, and center ball hits but everything
failed. I would miss the same shot in the same manner with some
consistency. When the system was off, it just didn't work without adjusting
the aiming point. The system will not produce the angles needed to pocket
every shot IMO. Believe me I tried, I wanted it to work.

...

 

[Straightpool_99]

Wasted post. I deleted it.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Wasted post. I deleted it.

The only thing there that is inaccurate, at least for me & others, perhaps not all, is that we did shoot shots with it.

But... like PJ has said, & I agree, there is no real need to do so, because of the requirements & the lack of what is provided & the nature of what determining the final shot line actually is.

Your other post is where the solution is because it is based on the reality of the matter.

It was a very good post.

 

[lfigueroa]

Oh, give me a break. I'm a 40-year woodworker and have $20K worth of fine hand tools I've collected over those years. I also have a chainsaw that "works for me". I understand the concept of a chainsaw very well, and can maintain, sharpen, and use it like a champ. Does that make me a "chainsaw guy"? Or am I a woodworker who chooses to use the appropriate tool for the job at hand?

I'll tell you what I am one of, and that's one of the decent guys here who gets tired of folks like you who get more enjoyment out of putting others down than most of us get out of the game itself. I usually keep silent while you go at other people here, but you came at me, so I fired back. Sorry if your butt hurts so bad. Looks like I'll have to buy some stock in aloe vera bath tissue since you seem to be needing a lot of it.

Now go make yourself a nice cup of cappuccino with that cool La Pavoni espresso maker you have and chill out for Christ sake. Wish I had one, but the wife won't let me clutter up our precious counter space with it.

lol, guess what? If you have to announce you're "one of the decent guys..." you're not.

Lou Figueroa
and yes, you're one of
the CTE guys
own it

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

lol, guess what? If you have to announce you're "one of the decent guys..." you're not.

ROFL! Never heard that one. Is that how it works? Maybe we should call it "Figueroa's Law"

Conversely, I guess acting like a pr*ck for 20 years means you're really not one, right? (sigh).

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

and yes, you're one of
the CTE guys
own it

A backpacker is traveling through Scotland when it starts to rain. He decides to wait out the storm in a nearby pub. The only other person at the bar is an older man staring at his drink. After a few moments of silence the man turns to the backpacker and says in a thick Scottish accent:

"You see this bar, wee man? I built this bar with me own bare hands. I cut down every tree and made the lumber meself. I toiled away through the wind and cold, but do they call me McGreggor the bar builder? No."

He continued "Do you see that stone wall out there? I built that wall with me own bare hands. I found every stone and placed them just right through the rain and the mud, but do they call me McGreggor the wall builder? No."

"Do ya see that pier out there on the lake? I built that pier with me own bare hands, driving each piling deep into ground so that it would last a lifetime. Do they call me McGreggor the pier builder? No."

"But ya f*ck one goat.."


Yeah, I've screwed a few balls in using CTE. Sue me.

 

[lfigueroa]

ROFL! Never heard that one. Is that how it works? Maybe we should call it "Figueroa's Law"

Conversely, I guess acting like a pr*ck for 20 years means you're really not one, right? (sigh).

See. Now that you're owning it you behave just like the rest of the crew. Must be some kind of relief for you.

Lou Figueroa
good thing we all know
you're a decent guy

 

[swest]

Well, to get the thread back on track (i.e., a thread about DAM), it seems to me, Dr. Dave, that the only thing your system lacks, in terms of promotion, is to have a reasonably-well-known-and-extremely-competent player dis it, indirectly, and then later recant his dis, based on his respect for, and friendship of, someone that is not quite as reasonably-well-known-and-extremely-competent.

If DAM had that, then it'd be Gold.

 

[swest]

My opinion is that Hal was selling his systems as being objective. If any are so inclined, here is an interesting discussion of his three point/dot system from RSB. All the usual suspects show up, including Smorg:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.billiard/7ah7h04VtFs[1-25]

Over 200 posts and it's the same ol' same ol'. 13 years later, nothing has changed.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks for that. It is an instructive read (although I'm only a fraction of the way through it...)