Decline of Snooker in Canada, how do we regain lost ground?

C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Last night I went to a local pool room with a friend of mine which I rarely frequent with the intention of playing some snooker. To my dismay I learned that they have joined the long list of pool rooms in Ottawa to have scrapped their snooker table. We had to settle for 8 ball.

As an avid snooker player it truly bothers me to watch the decline of such a fantastic game in this country. What's worse is that it is in favor of 9 ball, not any of the truly great pool games. This has been a trend over the last 10 years I believe. When I started playing there was a snooker table in my university games room, however about 3 years ago they got rid of it in favor of two more coin op tables. We used to have three tables in a pool room that closed down a few years ago, once they re-opened the snooker tables were gone in favor of two pool tables.

Snooker really needs some promoting to get the game back on it's feet in this country. Not many young people nowadays know what snooker is unless they are involved in pool, and unfortunately those who try it are turned off by the initial difficulty of the game. I can relate, when I started playing I preferred pool because I could pot balls more regularily.

I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done, but I know part of it is getting the game back on tv in some capacity. Without exposure to pro players it's tough to attract newer players.

Obviously it's not feasible to get World Championship coverage, not many in this country has the attention span at the moment to sit through 6-8 hours of snooker. Hell I don't think I could do that. And the chances of getting the rights to pot black or the premier league would be slim and/or expensive.

Perhaps what we could do is create a Canadian Pot Black, which could be aired at one point as 1 hour shows with 2 matches per show. Either that or create a Canadian Premier League under the matchroom format, and with enough marketing and advertisement perhaps we could get TSN to start airing Canadian cue sports again.
 
The problem is the cost per square ft of comercial space, this means room owners are having to do more with less space. This is what is killing snooker and in some places 9ft. tables also.

You can fit four bar tables in the space that two 12ft. snooker tables would occupy, with space for tables and seating, three 9ft's would make for tight seating but could be done. This offers an owner more revenue streams and the ability to entertain more customers, but still keep his overhead down by maintaining a manageable sq. footage. More customers = more money, more space = less money.

I enjoy the game of snooker but unfortunatly in my town all the comercially availible snooker tables are gone and the only league left is run on one table a player had put in abouve his garage.

I don't know what to do to fix this problem, my thoughts are that if you could get the government to recognize the heritage of snooker in Canada ang give out grants to rooms incorperating 2 or more snooker tables plus also running snooker leagues and giving snooker lessons it would become comercially viable again and justify the extra floor space rooms would require.

Just my thoughts

Bern
 
I believe the key factors determining snooker's decline are difficulty & cost, though most assuredly the former, hence the lack of interest. Promoting and advertising it carries its toll becasue of it.

Disappointing as it is, I've noticed that even in certain Asian and European countries where snooker was once dominated and in some cases where pool was unheard of, it is gradually being taken over by poolers. And where there are snooker tables in most areas here in the US, the concept of snooker has taken its new height as "altered" by golf gamblers.

Perhaps the Snooker Association of USA/Canada should introduce more leagues and tournaments of all levels on a regular basis, and raise/spread the stakes (prize money and trophies) for players. Another suggestion would be to franchise and/or given special incentives to owner operators and dedicated knowledgeable players in "good standings" as managers to carry 12 footer regulation tables whilst introducing and training this skillful sport to the newbies. I wouldn't mind the 10 footers either at the least just to get this sport going, considering its difficulty and cost factors. For now, sadly, it seems a vanishing trend.
 
I agree that rooms that have snooker tables need to put some efforts into promoting the game played on that table. Locally the Orange Monkey which is now the only place in my city that has significant number of snooker tables (six) holds a monday night league and I believe they have ocassionally held a six red tourney. I would love to play but financially it's not viable at the moment I would have to give up practicing which isn't an option.

Given the difficulty there needs to be some kind of exposure to grab people's interest. Perhaps some exhibition matches between local top players would be a good idea, followed by pool and snooker instruction.

If I had the time or money I would love to put together a pot blackish tournament amongst some top Canadian players, video tape it, and then present the idea and footage to TSN or Rogers Sportsnet to perhaps get a more professional production in the future. The problem is that even if on the off chance they took the suggestion, it would be aired at 1pm on weekday afternoon where no one would ever see it.

I'm about to watch Stephen Hendry vs. Judd Trump on youtube and it occurs to me that the various youtube posters who go to the trouble to post entire events, are doing more to promote the sport overseas than every other national and international organization combined. It's just sad is all.
 
It all comes down to money, as I mentioned in my other posts regarding the Canadians If there was enough incentive they will play, the reason most of the ex snooker players have turned to nine ball is not because it is easier but because that's where the prize money was. The reason a lot have stopped playing all together is poker :)
First you need the incentive then you need the grass roots development the rest will take care of itself.
 
In a few months I plan to add listings for Canada to findsnooker.com. Two Canadians from The Snooker Forum will likely be doing a lot of the work; thankfully one of them is a native French speaker, which will help with contacts in Quebec. The website won't draw people to the game, but at least it can help existing players find tables.


I have some ideas--okay, dozens of ideas--about how to promote and market the game, but I'll have to post them later since it's getting late.
 
Philthepockets said:
It all comes down to money, as I mentioned in my other posts regarding the Canadians If there was enough incentive they will play, the reason most of the ex snooker players have turned to nine ball is not because it is easier but because that's where the prize money was. The reason a lot have stopped playing all together is poker :)
First you need the incentive then you need the grass roots development the rest will take care of itself.
Click to expand...

Certainly I realize that most Canadian pro snooker players are playing the game as a hobby these days. At the moment I'm more worried about getting people in general playing let alone professionals so we can stop losing tables all over the country.

Though I suspect part of the problem with a lack of Canadian professionals probably also has something to do with the inaccessability of the main tour. From our perspective, not only do you have to win the Canadian Championships but the World Amateur Championships as well to get a place on the tour which is a little much to ask if you want to draw more professionals to the game.

By contrast anyone who feels they have a competitive game can walk in to virtually any major professional 9 ball event (only exceptions being the World Championships and a handful of invitational tourney's) and compete as long as they can pay the entry fee. It's easier to get a spot on the PGA tour than it is on snookers pro tour.

EDIT: Since I'm on the subject, I think the entire organisation of snooker's main tour is ridiculous and probably contributes to the lack of popularity. It's tough to sell a game to countries that do not have any of their own citizens on the tour as the first players people initially root for are their compatriots, there needs to be more major open tournaments, as of now there are none. Furthermore I can't believe no one has come to the realisation that seeding the top 16 players directly into the last 32 of a tournament is just stupid.

I realize that it works from a marketing perspective as you will always be able to see the same 16 players at the beginning of every tournament for the year but from a players perspective it's a lot to overcome. I believe it was Quinton on this board that said that if you don't get into the top 16 within the first year or two, you never will. With a couple of exceptions I think that isn't untrue.
 
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No question the qualifiers are brutal, however they do demand an extremely high standard and consistency but it can be done. Most notable are Ding, Liang and Marco all overseas players. Tony Drago got back on the tour after winning the European play off event or you can get on through the Pontin's International Open Series.
As the game is becoming more international maybe they will distribute these at some point as it is somewhat of an advantage for the UK players but that would always be the case for the home players I suppose.
It can also be argued that a two year ranking system is protectionism but it allows for some change in form and I believe the cream always rises.
I believe the real issue for Canada is we simply do not have enough pro level players or young players in the works, it's simply a numbers game.
 
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I promote the beautiful game by inviting pretty much anybody from the pool leagues I play in, to come by and play. As long as I believe that they will respect my equipment and have the decency to spot balls. Most pool players though get completely discouraged only making a few balls and never come back to try again. You do find a few that are upto the challenge. But not having a local competition or regular tournament in the area is hurting the uptake.
You can lead a horse to water etc.
 
In my neck of the woods snooker is not on the decline, it is flat out dead. The last of the snooker players are finished with the game and there is seriously nothing to save or cease a decline, it would be a complete rebuild from the ground up. And given there is only one pool hall in the entire city of Calgary with true 6x12 tables there is no groundwork in place and no chance in hell that a person would take the risk of putting those tables into a hall at this point. The two tables left in the city at Mikes are used rarely as it is.

We used to have alot of snooker players here in Calgary, they all shifted to pool. At this point pool itself is on the decline, but at least there is still the groundwork of pool halls with the tables around and the tournaments and the players still exist, albeit in diminished numbers.

Sorry to say but I am hoping for cue sports in general to not die off, and since pool is atm alot more healthy then snooker, and yet pool itself is still declining and hurting I would rather see the time, effort, and money put into the area where the players have all moved to at this point. In the East it cannot be that different, I know alot of your top 9-ball players are all former snooker players just like ours on this side of the country.
 
Here's half the problem.

OTTAWA -- The Canadian Paediatric Society, the College of Family Physicians of Canada and the Canadian Teachers' Federation issued a joint call for action today urging parents, educators, politicians and policy-makers to act immediately to address the alarming rise in the incidence of child and youth physical inactivity and obesity.

They also officially endorsed a new set of resources released today by Health Canada and the Canadian Society for Exercise Physiology (CSEP), aimed at increasing physical activity among Canada's youngest generation -- a group already recognized as seriously at risk for premature death and disability because of their unprecedented levels of sedentary behaviour.

The urgent call for action comes just weeks after the release of the National Longitudinal Survey of Children and Youth (NLSCY) by Statistics Canada, which showed estimates of obesity among children were higher than estimates for adults. These findings were consistent with studies by the Canadian Fitness and Lifestyle Research Institute, who warn that the health of over half of Canadian children and youth is threatened due to high levels of physical inactivity.

Increased reliance on television, video games, and computer technology as pastimes for children, and the diminishing priority of physical education in Canadian schools, are cited by experts as the major reasons for the growing numbers of sedentary children and teenagers.

The Canadian Paediatric Society and the College of Family Physicians of Canada are alarmed that too many children are sitting inside watching television instead of playing outdoors, particularly because most children already sit at school for five to seven hours every day.
 
Philthepockets, do you seriously believe that half the problem of snooker's decline in Canada, could possibly factor in the alarming physical inactivity and obesity?
 
My point was

"Increased reliance on television, video games, and computer technology as pastimes for children"
 
Our pool halls have reduced their number of snooker tables. When Pacific moved a couple of years back they dropped from 4 to 2 large tables. Snooker Shack has a couple, always have. About 2 months ago Bad Beavers went under and auctioned off their equipment. I heard the 4 snooker tables went for $75 each (this is 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th-hand infomation, but I can believe it).

We still have a core of snooker players, and I doubt if Pacific or the Shack will get rid of their tables.

I have no idea how to bring back this wonderful (but too big for me) game.

Dave
 
If I had more time and money, I would love to invest in promoting this game properly. Unfortunately it doesn't appear as though anyone else will at this time.

I still believe that in order for snooker to broaden it's base, it needs more exposure. It's too hard to take up if your starting from scratch, people will always drift over to the pool tables. Anyone will manage a 3-4 ball run on their first day, but they may not even pot one ball on the snooker table.

I think it would be kind of cool to do a made for tv (if anyone will show it) tourney that involved John Morra, Jason Klatt and Eric Hjorlifson as well as our established local snooker players. I don't know about Klatt, but the other two have some significant experience with the game.
 
I know it's probably not a fair comparison however for the sake of illustration.
The game in the UK has been fairly well established since the Joe Davis era, by that I mean it was played in the many working mens, labour, conservative clubs and legions. The game also had some respect.

When the Pot Black era started the game grew and the monetary rewards also grew, especially when the worlds and other ranking events made it to TV.

It was at this point where parents did not mind and even encouraged little Johnny to play because it was seen as a legitimate career with great earnings potential.

Alas the days of millions pouring in from the tobacco companies has gone and even in the UK it is looking bleak with only 6 ranking events scheduled.
Expansion into China and such may be the way forward to ensure any future at all for this sport.
As for Canada it would require our governing body to have a plan have exceptional leadership and energy, single mindedness and long term goals to make a difference.
 
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