Definition of Professional Pool Player

[watchez]

I was wondering what everyone's definition of a Professional Pool Player is?

Is it the 'speed' the person plays?

Is it the amount of money the person earns playing pool?

Or % of yearly income they make playing pool?

If you haven't played in a Pro event in a period of time, are you still considered a Professional Pool Player?

If you are retired from pool, would you still be a Professional Pool Player or simply retired?

If you cash in one Pro Event, are you now a Pro?

If you have a sponsor, are you automatically now considered a Pro?

 

[td873]

I was wondering what everyone's definition of a Professional Pool Player is?

Is it the 'speed' the person plays?

Is it the amount of money the person earns playing pool?

Or % of yearly income they make playing pool?

If you haven't played in a Pro event in a period of time, are you still considered a Professional Pool Player?

If you are retired from pool, would you still be a Professional Pool Player or simply retired?

If you cash in one Pro Event, are you now a Pro?

If you have a sponsor, are you automatically now considered a Pro?

First!

Search button is your friend

The general consensus in the previous threads was someone who got paid to perform their in given sport. No longer = former.

Don't confuse calling yourself a pro player (for bragging rights) with being a successful pro player (ability to pay your bills).

-td

 

[lodini]

I was wondering what everyone's definition of a Professional Pool Player is?

Is it the 'speed' the person plays?

Is it the amount of money the person earns playing pool?

Or % of yearly income they make playing pool?

If you haven't played in a Pro event in a period of time, are you still considered a Professional Pool Player?

If you are retired from pool, would you still be a Professional Pool Player or simply retired?

If you cash in one Pro Event, are you now a Pro?

If you have a sponsor, are you automatically now considered a Pro?

I can only answer one of them for sure... which is the question of once sometime retires from professional pool. At least how they do it in other pro sports... that person would be a "Former Professional Pool Player".

The other answer is an opinion, based on Sports Management classes I took in college. A Professional used to be determined based on when you started making money from the sport. Nowadays, in other sports, it's whether you make it to the Big Leagues. For something like Pool where there is no "big league", I would think the definition goes to whether or not the sport is your #1 source of livelihood.

 

[satman]

My opinion

I was wondering what everyone's definition of a Professional Pool Player is?

Is it the 'speed' the person plays?

Is it the amount of money the person earns playing pool?

Or % of yearly income they make playing pool?

If you haven't played in a Pro event in a period of time, are you still considered a Professional Pool Player?

If you are retired from pool, would you still be a Professional Pool Player or simply retired?

If you cash in one Pro Event, are you now a Pro?

If you have a sponsor, are you automatically now considered a Pro?

My first rule from way back, that I remember, was if a person paid an entry fee of $200 or more to play an event and cashed for that amount any time in the last 5 years. They were considered a pro player. Of course rules and definitions change. A couple of years ago in Vegas, a fromer pro tour player, played in the Open 8-ball for VNEA. Since he had never played VNEA leagues before, and no longer played {pro events} he was an Open player. That division is always tough to win. But he won it.
Personally, I know a persons game can drop a lot, due to not playing, health, general life restraints, so I think the first rule I mentioned, is probably still a decent guide.

 

[vagabond]

I can only answer one of them for sure... which is the question of once sometime retires from professional pool. At least how they do it in other pro sports... that person would be a "Former Professional Pool Player".

The other answer is an opinion, based on Sports Management classes I took in college. A Professional used to be determined based on when you started making money from the sport. Nowadays, in other sports, it's whether you make it to the Big Leagues. For something like Pool where there is no "big league", I would think the definition goes to whether or not the sport is your #1 source of livelihood.

that is a good answer and I have some thing to add.
If one does not show profits 3 years in a row the IRS will not allow you to take any deductions under buisiness losses for the expenses incurred during one`s excursions to the tournaments.

 

[satman]

Pretty good answer

I can only answer one of them for sure... which is the question of once sometime retires from professional pool. At least how they do it in other pro sports... that person would be a "Former Professional Pool Player".

The other answer is an opinion, based on Sports Management classes I took in college. A Professional used to be determined based on when you started making money from the sport. Nowadays, in other sports, it's whether you make it to the Big Leagues. For something like Pool where there is no "big league", I would think the definition goes to whether or not the sport is your #1 source of livelihood.

But as for the #1 source of livelihood, I have to disagree. George Breedlove is a good for instance on that point. A few years back, when he was still playing regularly, he made his living doing what he does now. But for a few winter months, he would play pool. He played and placed in several pro events during the winter, so would he be a Pro Player? In my opinion yes. Several people have a main source of livelihood outside pool but, are still pro players.

 

[stick8]

pro player

I was wondering what everyone's definition of a Professional Pool Player is?

Is it the 'speed' the person plays?

Is it the amount of money the person earns playing pool?

Or % of yearly income they make playing pool?

If you haven't played in a Pro event in a period of time, are you still considered a Professional Pool Player?

If you are retired from pool, would you still be a Professional Pool Player or simply retired?

If you cash in one Pro Event, are you now a Pro?

If you have a sponsor, are you automatically now considered a Pro?

dont know the definition, but to quote grady mathews to become pro you must quit your job divorce your wife and go on the road!!! ha young grady, if he was ever young he has been old all his life, but o.k. by me

 

[lodini]

But as for the #1 source of livelihood, I have to disagree. George Breedlove is a good for instance on that point. A few years back, when he was still playing regularly, he made his living doing what he does now. But for a few winter months, he would play pool. He played and placed in several pro events during the winter, so would he be a Pro Player? In my opinion yes. Several people have a main source of livelihood outside pool but, are still pro players.

In my opinion, that makes him a "semi-professional" pool player. If it's not the main source of income, then it's not his full time job and hence it's not his "profession".

 

[corvette1340]

this is very hard to define. A lot of pool players don't work and only play pool but they don't play in the big professional events. They play in the regional events or gamble so does that make them professionals? I think in order to be considered a true professional pool player you have to be in the major tournaments and make enough to cover your bills living expenses, etc.. Some make enough to survive but others I know that stay at home and sleep all day should not be considered professionals. I think scuffler would be a more appropriate term.

 

[lodini]

this is very hard to define. A lot of pool players don't work and only play pool but they don't play in the big professional events. They play in the regional events or gamble so does that make them professionals? I think in order to be considered a true professional pool player you have to be in the major tournaments and make enough to cover your bills living expenses, etc.. Some make enough to survive but others I know that stay at home and sleep all day should not be considered professionals. I think scuffler would be a more appropriate term.

Maybe first we need to decide whether being called a Professional Pool Player is a priveledged term based upon acheivements or whether it is just a simple term defining one's "profession."

Personally, I think for "dictionary" type purposes, it would be the latter.

 

[Johnnyt]

that is a good answer and I have some thing to add.
If one does not show profits 3 years in a row the IRS will not allow you to take any deductions under buisiness losses for the expenses incurred during one`s excursions to the tournaments.

If your talking about the IRS rule that says it becomes a hobby with three neg. years in a ROW, I don't think a pro pool player is in that rule. I could be wrong. Johnnyt

 

[corvette1340]

Maybe first we need to decide whether being called a Professional Pool Player is a priveledged term based upon acheivements or whether it is just a simple term defining one's "profession."

Personally, I think for "dictionary" type purposes, it would be the latter.

yeah, this probably makes the most sense. I guess if anyone derives all of their income from pool, be it tourneys, gambling, etc... then they could be considered as having pool as their profession.

I guess I look at it like this: I could go and hang out at the golf course all day or quit my job and play poker all day and make money at both. But, would that make me a professional golfer or poker player? Maybe, maybe not. Different people will have differing views on this.

 

[lodini]

I guess I look at it like this: I could go and hang out at the golf course all day or quit my job and play poker all day and make money at both. But, would that make me a professional golfer or poker player? Maybe, maybe not. Different people will have differing views on this.

Except that these are both activities with a governing body that defines the pros as they qualify and start making a certain amount of money. Pool does not have that.

 

[corvette1340]

Except that these are both activities with a governing body that defines the pros as they qualify and start making a certain amount of money. Pool does not have that.

poker and golf have several different tours and professional events exactly like pool does. The PGA is only the biggest professional golf tour but there are literally hundreds of smaller professional tours. The same with poker. There is the WPT, WSOP, EPT, PPT, etc... Pool has the UPA, Eurotour, Asian Tour, and several independent professional events.

 

[lodini]

poker and golf have several different tours and professional events exactly like pool does. The PGA is only the biggest professional golf tour but there are literally hundreds of smaller professional tours. The same with poker. There is the WPT, WSOP, EPT, PPT, etc... Pool has the UPA, Eurotour, Asian Tour, and several independent professional events.

Then those pool pro tours should have the definition. No speculation necessary.

 

[watchez]

For tax year 2007 only, many taxpayers who would not normally need to file a federal income tax return will need to file one in order to ensure that they receive an Economic Stimulus Payment (commonly referred to as "rebate"). If in 2007 you were not required to file based on the amount of your income but the combined amount of your earned income plus Social Security, Railroad Retirement benefits and certain benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs is $3,000 or more


Sooooo, you have to have a minimum level of income before you file taxes. $3K per year is what the IRS website states. So in my mind, if you don't even make $3K a year in income from playing pool in Pro tournaments, you couldn't be considered Professional.

Two other examples:

Bobby McGrath won $50k in the ESPN Speed Pool Challenge. Is he now a Professional Pool Player?

Mike Sigel won $13k playing pool in 2007, not a dime in 2008. He hasn't entered a tournament since the IPT went defunct. He is a Professional Pool Player, a retired Professional Pool Player or ???

 

[JAM]

[ Mike Sigel won $13k playing pool in 2007, not a dime in 2008. He hasn't entered a tournament since the IPT went defunct. He is a Professional Pool Player, a retired Professional Pool Player or ???

How do you know what Mike Sigel has won playing pool in 2008? What is your source to reflect a pool player's income?

I can assure you that there are many sources of a pool player's income that they win professionally on the tournament trail that never get recorded.

JAM

 

[watchez]

How do you know what Mike Sigel has won playing pool in 2008? What is your source to reflect a pool player's income?

I can assure you that there are many sources of a pool player's income that they win professionally on the tournament trail that never get recorded.

JAM

My source is AZBilliards.com. Real nice website, full of archived information and a great player finder full of tournament winnings.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2008.cfm?playernum=844

and actually, I misquoted my source. I apologize for that. Let me correct what I said.

Sigel won $13K in 2006, Zero in 2007. Zero in 2008

So for 1 1/2 years, he has won Zero playing Professional Pool.

And obviously, a player can win $$$ on the tournament trail but if they are winning $$$ in tournaments that are not Pro Events, would they still be considered a Pro? What is the cutoff? Do weekly bar tournaments count? Handicapped tournaments? Does the BCA Vegas tournaments count? (if the BCA Vegas tournaments count, then I am more of a Pro than Mike Sigel the past 2 years - actually, my opinion - Mike Sigel is no longer a Pro Player)

 

[Johnnyt]

Do pool players that file as a pro player have to pay all their own social security taxes? Johnnyt

 

[9 on the snap]

Everybody is a professional something; If they support themselves. I am a professional CPA, that's what pays the bills. It's eat what you kill on a daily basis. If you support yourself you are a professional whatever. If you support yourself playing pool, touring, gambling, lessons, books, tapes DVD's; buying a room as a player. You are a professional pool player. Until you support yourself you are an aspiring pro, that's where the day job comes in.