Deflection Tests

hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As I was explaining to people what deflection was I setup a simple demonstration and gathered some data on the shafts I had available.
This helps me to explain to newer players why they may be missing shots when using side-spin and how much to adjust and also to help them pick out a new shaft/cue if they are looking for one. Way too many people have told me "I want to buy a new cue" "I want to get a better cue" but don't understand why some other cue would be better past a nicer build and more cost LOL I stop them there and go over this.

All hit from the spot with 2 tips of spin with about 75% power towards a frozen ball at the back rail and just observed where it hit.

Red = Revo 12.4 (just about a full ball hit far as I can tell)
Red/Orange = Predator Z (was close to the Revo I would say 4/5th full but not quite as full)
Orange = OB1, custom 12.5mm with 1/8th inch ferrule (between 3/4 and 1/2 ball hit)
Yellow = Players PureX 12.5mm, Lucasi Flexpoint, several other custom LD shafts (1/2 ball hit to a bit over 1/8th ball hit)
Green = A few house cues, standard McDermott shafts

If you guys want to mess around with this, see if what I observed matches other tests, maybe add a few more shafts to show how much they deflect off center.

Deflection Test.jpg
 

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hang-the-9 said:
... Way too many people have told me "I want to buy a new cue" "I want to get a better cue" but don't understand why some other cue would be better past a nicer build and more cost LOL I stop them there and go over this. ...
Click to expand...
The last two or three times I went to Hopkin's Super Billiard Expo, I hung around one of the cue company booths for an hour or so where they had low squirt (low cue ball deflection, LD) shafts available to try out for as long as the customer wanted. I'd say that at least half the people who came up and tried and eventually bought one of these fancy, new, accurate, expensive "LD" shafts never hit a shot with side spin during the test shots. They didn't actually understand what all the commotion was about, but they knew they had to have one. I think it's possible that some of them never, ever used side spin.
 
One of the reasons I switched to an LD cue 25+ yrs. ago (from Gus Z./Joss/etc.) was how the degree of deflection was thus no longer as directly proportional to the force of hit. Deflection is a useful feature, but calculating distance/force/measure can be overwhelming.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Green = A few house cues, standard McDermott shafts
Click to expand...
This shot can be quite deadly if you figure out how to do it with right (outside) english to cut into the left pocket. I used to specialize in this shot and it was the one that made me give up my LD shaft and go back to regular maple. I'm not much of a gambler but I won a handful of drinks with this shot as a proposition.

Good post and very useful for showing how different shafts operate.
 
hang-the-9 said:
As I was explaining to people what deflection was I setup a simple demonstration and gathered some data on the shafts I had available.
This helps me to explain to newer players why they may be missing shots when using side-spin and how much to adjust and also to help them pick out a new shaft/cue if they are looking for one. Way too many people have told me "I want to buy a new cue" "I want to get a better cue" but don't understand why some other cue would be better past a nicer build and more cost LOL I stop them there and go over this.

All hit from the spot with 2 tips of spin with about 75% power towards a frozen ball at the back rail and just observed where it hit.

Red = Revo 12.4 (just about a full ball hit far as I can tell)
Red/Orange = Predator Z (was close to the Revo I would say 4/5th full but not quite as full)
Orange = OB1, custom 12.5mm with 1/8th inch ferrule (between 3/4 and 1/2 ball hit)
Yellow = Players PureX 12.5mm, Lucasi Flexpoint, several other custom LD shafts (1/2 ball hit to a bit over 1/8th ball hit)
Green = A few house cues, standard McDermott shafts

If you guys want to mess around with this, see if what I observed matches other tests, maybe add a few more shafts to show how much they deflect off center.

View attachment 598402
Click to expand...
This has been my LD shaft test as well. Not super scientific but you get a pretty idea of how a shaft performs. My Mezz Hybrid Pro(1st version) is what i'd call 'semi LD', less than solid maple but a bit higher than the really LD stuff. I love it.
 
So is one shaft better than another for having your cue ball hit the OB where you want it to hit, regardless of speed, distance, and spin? I think the answer is that if you know from experience where your present preferred shaft, factoring in a straight and proper stroke, will deliver the CB, then that would be the better shaft for that person. For a beginner, it would appear that the least deflective shaft will significantly shorten the learning curve as to where to aim.
I have never switched off my maple shafts that come with my custom cues. I might be stubborn, or some may say foolish, but I always think about Greenleaf, Mosconi, Lassiter, and company and then I just say to myself- good enough for them- good enough for me too :)

I recently played in a tournament and some of these guys had 5 cues lined up for the match- different size jump cues, break cues, playing cues, extensions galore, carbon fiber this and that- you name it-- Not knocking it- but they needed a golf bag more than a cue case :)

Man, I remember when the best guy in the room would come in at night with a leather envelope case, one cue with one shaft, no pockets on the case for any accessories at all, just a cue and house chalk and he would shoot the lights out- I still love that image!
 
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mikemosconi said:
So is one shaft better than another for having your cue ball hit the OB where you want it to hit, regardless of speed, distance, and spin? I think the answer is that if you know from experience where your present preferred shaft, factoring in a straight and proper stroke, will deliver the CB, then that would be the better shaft for that person. For a beginner, it would appear that the least deflective shaft will significantly shorten the learning curve as to where to aim.
I have never switched off my maple shafts that come with my custom cues. I might be stubborn, or some may say foolish, but I always think about Greenleaf, Mosconi, Lassiter, and company and then I just say to myself- good enough for them- good enough for me too :)

I recently played in a tournament and some of these guys had 5 cues lined up for the match- different size jump cues, break cues, playing cues, extensions galore, carbon fiber this and that- you name it-- Not knocking it- but they needed a golf bag more than a cue case :)

Man, I remember when the best guy in the room would come in at night with a leather envelope case, one cue with one shaft, no pockets on the case for any accessories at all, just a cue and house chalk and he would shoot the lights out- I still love that image!
Click to expand...
I have just recently gone from playing for the last 2+ years with a low deflection 12.25mm carbon fiber shaft back to a 12.75mm wood shaft with way more deflection, although it is still touted as a high performance low deflection shaft.

So far, I am very encouraged with the switch. I’m 64, so I grew up playing my first 30 pool playing years with a relatively high deflection Meucci, before switching to a 314 shaft 20+ years ago, then an even lower deflection Z shaft 10+ years ago.

I’m feeling like the higher deflection shaft is what I grew up with and it takes me back to my younger days when I was playing some really good pool. Making the adjustment in my aiming when spinning the cue ball is clearly going to take a little time to get used to, but seems to be happening relatively quickly, almost subconsciously.

There’s clearly something to be said (that I now appreciate more) about players, especially pro level players, who prefer a wood shaft with more deflection as opposed to a thinner carbon fiber shaft with way less deflection.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I have just recently gone from playing for the last 2+ years with a low deflection 12.25mm carbon fiber shaft back to a 12.75mm wood shaft with way more deflection, although it is still touted as a high performance low deflection shaft.

So far, I am very encouraged with the switch. I’m 64, so I grew up playing my first 30 pool playing years with a relatively high deflection Meucci, before switching to a 314 shaft 20+ years ago, then an even lower deflection Z shaft 10+ years ago.

I’m feeling like the higher deflection shaft is what I grew up with and it takes me back to my younger days when I was playing some really good pool. Making the adjustment in my aiming when spinning the cue ball is clearly going to take a little time to get used to, but seems to be happening relatively quickly, almost subconsciously.

There’s clearly something to be said (that I now appreciate more) about players, especially pro level players, who prefer a wood shaft with more deflection as opposed to a thinner carbon fiber shaft with way less deflection.
Click to expand...
My dream lately has been to hopefully get to the finals of one of these regional tournaments and then go back to my car and take out my Palmer or my Hoppe Titilist cue in my Brunswick flip top case and shoot for the cash just like I remember it back then - I pack them- just in case :) :)
 
Defection is a buzz word for Excuse, when you miss.

Wonder if the great player of long ago like Mosconi, Cornbread Red, or any of the better player of 1940's to 1970's ever word about excuses, because of deflection, top, or equiptment failure?
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Defection is a buzz word for Excuse, when you miss.

Wonder if the great player of long ago like Mosconi, Cornbread Red, or any of the better player of 1940's to 1970's ever word about excuses, because of deflection, top, or equiptment failure?
Click to expand...
Yes, the old timers just played- in every sport- no excuses, just look at a set of Arnold Palmer Golden Standard golf clubs from the 70s - I had a set - no comparison to today- but no excuses from the greats back then either - it was all they knew and they made it work- I think Babe Ruth used a 42 ounce baseball bat! Times change - excuses change - but greatness is based on doing it in the here and now, regardless!
 
ChrisinNC said:
I have just recently gone from playing for the last 2+ years with a low deflection 12.25mm carbon fiber shaft back to a 12.75mm wood shaft with way more deflection, although it is still touted as a high performance low deflection shaft.

So far, I am very encouraged with the switch. I’m 64, so I grew up playing my first 30 pool playing years with a relatively high deflection Meucci, before switching to a 314 shaft 20+ years ago, then an even lower deflection Z shaft 10+ years ago.

I’m feeling like the higher deflection shaft is what I grew up with and it takes me back to my younger days when I was playing some really good pool. Making the adjustment in my aiming when spinning the cue ball is clearly going to take a little time to get used to, but seems to be happening relatively quickly, almost subconsciously.

There’s clearly something to be said (that I now appreciate more) about players, especially pro level players, who prefer a wood shaft with more deflection as opposed to a thinner carbon fiber shaft with way less deflection.
Click to expand...
Bob Meucci used to tout his shafts as being low deflection. His shafts seemed whippier then most shafts but actually had less deflection then a regular shaft from another cue. Im not talking recently, but more then 40 years ago he was talking low deflection. He even built a machine to prove it..
 
hang-the-9 said:
Red = Revo 12.4 (just about a full ball hit far as I can tell)
Red/Orange = Predator Z (was close to the Revo I would say 4/5th full but not quite as full)
Orange = OB1, custom 12.5mm with 1/8th inch ferrule (between 3/4 and 1/2 ball hit)
Yellow = Players PureX 12.5mm, Lucasi Flexpoint, several other custom LD shafts (1/2 ball hit to a bit over 1/8th ball hit)
Green = A few house cues, standard McDermott shafts
Click to expand...
May I ask which one of the above is you daily player...?

...and yes I'm leading to something.

My standard test for shaft deflection is the frozen back rail OB, but I attempt to spin it in one of the corners from the head spot. I know what it takes for my player so it gives me a baseline for everything else.
 
mikemosconi said:
Yes, the old timers just played- in every sport- no excuses, just look at a set of Arnold Palmer Golden Standard golf clubs from the 70s - I had a set - no comparison to today- but no excuses from the greats back then either - it was all they knew and they made it work- I think Babe Ruth used a 42 ounce baseball bat! Times change - excuses change - but greatness is based on doing it in the here and now, regardless!
Click to expand...
If the old time pool players were around today They would be using the newest and most innovative equipment they could find. Especially guys like Lassiter. He would be playing with whatever shaft he found to be to his advantage, probably a layered tip and Kamui chalk. In the 60 and 70 most pro players played with what would be thought of today as big shafts. 13 to 14 mm, 13.5 was very common.
Lassiter played with a 12.5. He would actually comment "I didn't see how you guys can play with those fat shafts".
 
The_JV said:
May I ask which one of the above is you daily player...?

...and yes I'm leading to something.

My standard test for shaft deflection is the frozen back rail OB, but I attempt to spin it in one of the corners from the head spot. I know what it takes for my player so it gives me a baseline for everything else.
Click to expand...
The same here...once you feel this shot with your set-up it's quite easy to feel the difference trying others.
 
The_JV said:
May I ask which one of the above is you daily player...?

...and yes I'm leading to something.

My standard test for shaft deflection is the frozen back rail OB, but I attempt to spin it in one of the corners from the head spot. I know what it takes for my player so it gives me a baseline for everything else.
Click to expand...

Either the Revo or one of the custom shafts with the lowest deflection are the two I use by far the most. The custom one that deflects a bit more is my favorite to use right now.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Defection is a buzz word for Excuse, when you miss.

Wonder if the great player of long ago like Mosconi, Cornbread Red, or any of the better player of 1940's to 1970's ever word about excuses, because of deflection, top, or equiptment failure?
Click to expand...

It's actually a reality of why some people miss, because they don't adjust properly for how the shaft reacts. So less deflection = less need to adjust = more accuracy. 99.99% of players are not Mosconi or Efren or Bustamante that learned to play great without thinking much about why the shaft did what it did. If they used low deflection when they learned they likely could have learned to play much faster and Bustamante would not be aiming to totally miss a ball when using spin.
 
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