Derby 9ball rack mechanics

clearly it's the Game that is perfect, not the players.

I did not call you a good player. I said you "may be". I am not joking. Are you saying that you are so experienced that you know everything there is to know on a pool table. You would not try anything new because you already know what you are going to like and what you are not going to like?

I was pretty clear, I don't know what a "good player" is. As for you thinking I've never played any "break, ball in hand" propositions you're quite frankly in "the dark". I doubt if I though I knew everything on the pool table I would be involved with "The Game is the Teacher".....clearly it's the Game that is perfect, not the players. Many of us don't even like talking about it.

I told this story the other day on Face Book, you may not have read it:

There was an elderly gentleman that "appeared" in my life over 20 years ago for a brief "parenthesis in my reality," and gifted me with a present that I'm now starting to realize was ironic, or was it the irony of "fate". Hmmm ;-)

I was standing behind the bar talking to the day bartender in my pool room 'CJ's Billiard Palace', which was unusual, especially during business hours. He came through the door unassumingly, and quietly sat down at the bar in front of us "would you like a drink, I'm a champion bartender," I said, cracking a smile, as the bartender chimed in "as long as you just want a bottled beer or Pepsi."

The gentleman beamed, seeing we were enjoying some kind of "private joke," and replied "I'll just have a bottle of water, thanks." The bartender reached in the cooler the for water as the man directed his gaze back to me. "I think you might be a better pool player than bartender, would you agree?"

"I think you have a good point there, partner, if I had to rely on my bar-tending skills I'd be sleeping in the street," also smiling, but a little uneasily, the man's eyes were clear and very bright, it almost seemed like he was looking inside of my mind, at the "TV" of my thoughts. That's ridiculous of course, no one can "see our thoughts,or read our minds" and quite frankly I'm glad. I wouldn't want to be on either side of that ability, life's confusing enough sometimes exactly the way it is.

"You are the professional pool player that owns this place, I've seen you play before," I nodded still adjusting to the intensity of the man's crystal blue eyes, his voice remained soft, almost soothing. "What, may I ask do you expect to achieve from your pool Game," he ask motioning to the Brunswick table, just left of the front door where he had entered only minutes before.

"I guess I would like to compete with the world's best players and maybe even beat a couple of them," I again smiled, but on the inside my mind was busy running through thousands of past memories, it seemed like I had known this man before, but from where? No memories seemed to match, I instead had one of those strange déjà vu sensations, like "this has happened before."

The man lay his opened napkin on the bar in front of us and looked back at me, "you know that game is perfect don't you," he looked back at the napkin on the bar, then quickly back to me.

"Perfect, I ask, what do you mean, if you're asking do I play the game perfectly, the answer is no, but I do have these moments, my eyes lost focus as I instinctively reminisced a feeling of being in the 'The Zone'."

He shook his head and chuckled slightly, "you're human young man, perfection is not in your nature, however, it is in the Game, the Game is perfect at the highest level," the man picked up the napkin on the bar and lifted it up, appearing to look under it for something, "you just have to uncover that perfection."

He looked back into my now refocused eyes "do you understand{?}, he lifted the napkin up again as if there were treasure buried underneath "the perfection is in the Game, and you have to be the one to uncover It, and that perfection will play through you, the Game can only express it's perfection though people that play."

Other things were said, but the memories trail off like a dream, in my memory the man just disappeared, but I'm sure he got up and walked out of the pool room that day like a regular person.....or did he{smile}?

It took me a number of years to understand what that intriguing man with those crystal blue eyes meant by "the perfection of the Game playing through me," however, the seed began to grow, and over the course of time started making more and more sense, and it led to the most satisfying discovery of my career. - The Game became my teacher, and I couldn't have picked a better one. I've learned in my later years, some of our greatest teachers in life aren't chosen, they "somehow" choose us. "The Game is the Teacher" CJ Wiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kPAsaF2T54U
 
As for you thinking I've never played any "break, ball in hand" propositions you're quite frankly in "the dark".

What are you talking about? Ball in hand is not even a part of this discussion.

As far as the rest of that last post goes: You are fantasizing. There is no special meaning in pool, for that matter, in any game or sport.
 
What are you talking about? Ball in hand is not even a part of this discussion.

As far as the rest of that last post goes: You are fantasizing. There is no special meaning in pool, for that matter, in any game or sport.

Like I said before, breaking and controlling the one (without making a ball) is much easier to dothan controlling the one and making a ball on the break.

It's essentially the same as having BIH after the break for great players.

Let the top 16 players in the world play a tournament with your rules, and I'd be willing to wager that way more than half the matches go hill-hill.

Boring.
 
What are you talking about? Ball in hand is not even a part of this discussion.

As far as the rest of that last post goes: You are fantasizing. There is no special meaning in pool, for that matter, in any game or sport.

There's no special meaning in life then....it's a matter of belief isn't it? I give it no esoteric meaning, pool's just a microcosm of life for those that really like it and respect it's deeper meaning. I don't care what rules you use, but could you not call it "conflict rules?" ;)
 
There's no special meaning in life then....it's a matter of belief isn't it?

Manufactured phenolic plastic balls rolling around on milled woven cloth = recreation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Instead of talking in tongues about pool, how about trying to figure out ways to make this game more fun so more people will want to play it.
 
racking

I will tell you a secret, im 74r old and if you dont check my rack i going to make wing ball!!!-but i dont do it as i am a honest guy-but it can and is done!!i think there should be a racker assigned to rack for player and they have to ascept it!! IM JUST SAYING!!!
:confused::confused:
 
Manufactured phenolic plastic balls rolling around on milled woven cloth = recreation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Instead of talking in tongues about pool, how about trying to figure out ways to make this game more fun so more people will want to play it.

It would be more fun here, if we could read what the "pros" write, and not have to weave thru the traffic of such posts as yours
 
I could hand pick them for your "pool palate"

Manufactured phenolic plastic balls rolling around on milled woven cloth = recreation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Instead of talking in tongues about pool, how about trying to figure out ways to make this game more fun so more people will want to play it.

We just did that, it's called TOI...the success letters are rolling in, would you like to read a few of them? I've probably got 50 or more saved....maybe the ones that best suit your tastes, I could hand pick them for your "pool palate". ;)
 
in the 90s we usually had refs that racked and you just broke them

I will tell you a secret, im 74r old and if you dont check my rack i going to make wing ball!!!-but i dont do it as i am a honest guy-but it can and is done!!i think there should be a racker assigned to rack for player and they have to ascept it!! IM JUST SAYING!!!
:confused::confused:

Yes, in the 90s we usually had refs that racked and you just broke them and accepted what happened.....that's the way it should be, the players should not be allowed to touch anything but the cue ball. imho
 
Yes, in the 90s we usually had refs that racked and you just broke them and accepted what happened.....that's the way it should be, the players should not be allowed to touch anything but the cue ball. imho

So you are saying "You must slop a ball in on the break in order to continue." Is this the way we should start a game, with a slopped ball? Should this be rewarded? What is the skill in that?

After all, playing a particular ball is going to require some rack checking and re-racking in order to get the balls where you want them.
 
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So you are saying "You must slop a ball in on the break in order to continue." Is this the way we should start a game, with a slopped ball? Should this be rewarded? What is the skill in that?

After all, playing a particular ball is going to require some rack checking and re-racking in order to get the balls where you want them.

No, he saying players shouldn't be aloud to touch the rack.You should agree,we should all agree.To many Jack baits out there that like to control shit.(the break)
There cheating!
 
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No, he saying players shouldn't be aloud to touch the rack.You should agree,we should all agree.To many Jack baits out there that like to control shit.(the break)
There cheating!

Okay. So how does a ball find a pocket on the break? Not allowing the players to manipulate the rack or to demand a re-rack takes the planned ball out of the picture. What is left? The slopped ball? If that is the case, I say that it is not worth saving.

C.J., Please make a case for the slopped ball. I don't get it.
 
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the end equates to how much of a factor the break should be in the game?

Okay. So how does a ball find a pocket on the break? Not allowing the players to manipulate the rack or to demand a re-rack takes the planned ball out of the picture. What is left? The slopped ball? If that is the case, I say that it is not worth saving.

C.J., Please make a case for the slopped ball. I don't get it.

There's an element of luck in all sports or games. The only way to ensure as much skill as possible is with a roll out after the break.

I think we need to "begin with the end in mind," and the end equates to how much of a factor the break should be in the game?

In other words, if we agree the break is 0% of the game the players would break and start the game by rolling out (alternating each time). For the break to be 5%, if a ball was made on the break the breaker would receive the first roll out because that'a a small advantage(it may be 10%).

If we want the break to be 50% of the game, the breaker would get the first shot after the break, etc. (I, of course am using the 50% as an example and it's up to real statistics(AtLarge - input please) to figure out what that number really is.

I would like to see the break be no more than 20% of the game of 9 Ball. Now someone needs to create a formula that produces an 20%/80% ratio (Break/Game). Then make it 30%/70% and see what needs to happen to create that ratio, then even look at 40%/60%....that would be interesting.
 
There's an element of luck in all sports or games. The only way to ensure as much skill as possible is with a roll out after the break.

I think we need to "begin with the end in mind," and the end equates to how much of a factor the break should be in the game?

In other words, if we agree the break is 0% of the game the players would break and start the game by rolling out (alternating each time). For the break to be 5%, if a ball was made on the break the breaker would receive the first roll out because that'a a small advantage(it may be 10%).

If we want the break to be 50% of the game, the breaker would get the first shot after the break, etc. (I, of course am using the 50% as an example and it's up to real statistics(AtLarge - input please) to figure out what that number really is.

I would like to see the break be no more than 20% of the game of 9 Ball. Now someone needs to create a formula that produces an 20%/80% ratio (Break/Game). Then make it 30%/70% and see what needs to happen to create that ratio, then even look at 40%/60%....that would be interesting.

I got all that. What I asked was for you or anyone else, to make the case for the slopped ball as the only plan for the break.
 
I got all that. What I asked was for you or anyone else, to make the case for the slopped ball as the only plan for the break.

There's an element of luck in all sports or games.

If that is your best answer, it will have to do. Thank you.
 
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fine if you like stuffed animals

I got all that. What I asked was for you or anyone else, to make the case for the slopped ball as the only plan for the break.



If that is your best answer, it will have to do. Thank you.

You make no sense, are you suggesting to call balls on the break, or is this just a full circle back to playing "break and first shot rules?"

Most champion players will break and run out just under 50% of the time with the "break and the first shot"....I maintain that is too much and it makes pool a carnival game , which is fine if you like stuffed animals. ;)
 
Most champion players will break and run out just under 50% of the time with the "break and the first shot"....I maintain that is too much and it makes pool a carnival game , which is fine if you like stuffed animals. ;)


Where are you getting 50%? I do know that this is not even close. Even if it was a good number, what is wrong with 50%?

How do you know that the players would not like it?

How do you know that nobody would want to watch it?
 
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