Determining Cue Values, i.e., Prices.

[Shooter08]

I agree

Now I can appreciate the annoyance LoRider must have felt about the lack of integrity on the part of that cue dealer.and the truth is there's are assholes and dishonest individuals in every industry & type of work. It can ruin your feelings about doong something again. Nonetheless, it still doesn't alter the fact that LoRider was able to play with a great cue for several years and when he sold it, he never lost a penny......only because his cue was a custom cue from a respected cue-maker, unlike the dishonest ones like Tony Zinzola, Lee Pepper, et al.

Overall, it sounds like LoRider did pretty good because he could have owned an expensive production cue, like a Schon, a well respected name in cues. But it's unlikely the sale outcome would have been the same if that were the case.......just my 2 cents about custom cues.

Matt B.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your assessment. It sounds like to me this "dishonest" cue dealer did a disservice to all cue buyers as well as other resellers. I have come to a decision that I don't have a desire to sell used custom cues and am continuing to look for a custom builder we can represent professionally. I have reached out to a couple with no avail and have a couple soft inquiries. I'm really hoping something comes to fruition as I truly feel we can partner with a cue builder and relieve some of the difficulties with the time management involved with customer service. A great cue builder should have interaction with his or her customers but not have to sift through the bs for lack of a better term. That is what a sales rep or "reseller" should deal with.

 

[dom_poppa]

I think sellers/flippers are all the same. I don't have a problem with someone selling something for a profit but they are doing a disservice to collectors and players by overstating its value. Value and price is determined by what a buyer wants to pay. Bill Gates or Warren Buffet can pay 100k for <insert cuemaker> cues but it doesn't mean that is what it is worth.

I've talked to people that play with mid-tier and low-tier cues and heard them say they always sell a cue for profit and these are your run of the mill cues. Thank the high-end collectors for trickling down this idea to even the lower end cues.

You are not going to sell me something that is dinged up and the shafts are bluing because the cue maker doesn't make cues anymore and to do it for a profit.

In my opinion, a pool cue depreciates as soon as you play with them. I have seen guys trying to sell me a certain cue and claim its perfect but upon inspection, I see swirl marks and dings.

If anything, custom cues should depreciate more because that cue was built specifically for someone else and not you. Just like if someone decided to paint a Ferrari lime green.

When inquiring about cues, I always tell the cue maker to do whatever he wants with it. I will give him certain colors for veneers and the rest is him. The point is to cherish the designing elements from a cue maker because if you wanted a custom design, designed by you, any cue maker can build it for you.

It would be a shame to tell Guz, Barry, Balabushka or Tascarella how to design a cue. I leave it to them. It is what made them, them.

 

[cuesblues]

I think sellers/flippers are all the same. I don't have a problem with someone selling something for a profit but they are doing a disservice to collectors and players by overstating its value. Value and price is determined by what a buyer wants to pay. Bill Gates or Warren Buffet can pay 100k for <insert cuemaker> cues but it doesn't mean that is what it is worth.

I've talked to people that play with mid-tier and low-tier cues and heard them say they always sell a cue for profit and these are your run of the mill cues. Thank the high-end collectors for trickling down this idea to even the lower end cues.

You are not going to sell me something that is dinged up and the shafts are bluing because the cue maker doesn't make cues anymore and to do it for a profit.

In my opinion, a pool cue depreciates as soon as you play with them. I have seen guys trying to sell me a certain cue and claim its perfect but upon inspection, I see swirl marks and dings.

If anything, custom cues should depreciate more because that cue was built specifically for someone else and not you. Just like if someone decided to paint a Ferrari lime green.

When inquiring about cues, I always tell the cue maker to do whatever he wants with it. I will give him certain colors for veneers and the rest is him. The point is to cherish the designing elements from a cue maker because if you wanted a custom design, designed by you, any cue maker can build it for you.

It would be a shame to tell Guz, Barry, Balabushka or Tascarella how to design a cue. I leave it to them. It is what made them, them.

Well spoken by a guy who admittedly doesn't buy custom cues and only buys Predator stuff on Ebay.
With that said, I have my doubts that you ever buy anything Predator, pool related, or even play pool for that matter.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Dom,

While we tend to agree on most points, I have several exceptions with your post. You assume that the seller of a cue is going to be selling you a cue that's "dinged up and the shafts bluing" which is a major presumption. Personally, I would pass on a cue like that which is why I only buy pristine condition cues and the ones I may sell from time to time are assuredly the same way. You won't find any dings or bluing on my shafts or ferrules and the finish is flawless.....and those are the same type cues I look to buy. So those type cues are out there and I don't see many expensive custom cues being sold that are dinged up and shafts all blued up.

I concur that any pool cue should depreciate based upon the amount of play the cue has seen. However, when the cue-maker is retired or deceased and the population of that cue-maker's cues built will hence never change, that's a very significant fact. And if that specific cue-maker also did not have a large annual volume of cues released, then that really amplifies that significance. There's a big difference with a cue-maker releasing 30-50 cues a month versus maybe 1 -2 per month and very often a whole lot less than that annually like Szamboti, Hercek, Ginacue, Tascarella, Searing, Prewitt, Tibbits, etc. Now keep in mind these are active cue-makers and so when the cue-maker is out of the business, it adds to the cue's value due to limited lifetime production of cues.

And if you find a cue that's used but it has your specs, why not get it? That's what I've done and when I can't, I have a custom built. When you can't find a used cue and the cue-maker has a long wait for new orders, it's worth paying a premium so I get it so I don't have to wait years for a cue from that cue-maker. I want a Hercek cue and Joel has an 11 years wait. So heck yeah, I'm willing to pay a premium price for one of his cues now than a lower price 11-12 years from now for that same cue. It's no different than paying for valet parking at a restaurant when there's no parking nearby.......it's a convenience and not having to wait 2-3-5-10 years for a custom pool cue is a very real convenience that I'm willing to pay for. and how much depends on the cue.

Your notion that any cue-maker can, or even would agree to, build you any custom design you came up with and still deliver the cue with your exact specifications for weights and sizes is not very realistic. I shopped around before I made my selections and not every cue-maker wants to get involved in building the cue the way you want it.......shaft weights & sizes, specific taper, etc., cue butt diameter & weight, sharp points & veneers are generally easy but fancy inlay arrangement & ring designs can be a challenge for some cue-makers. Not every cue-maker is willing to build you a cue te exact way you design it and most importantly, deliver the finished cue built to your specifications.

And you don't want a cue-maker to build you a 18.35 oz. cue by building it at 17 ozs and then sticking a 1.35 ozs weight bolt in the butt. You want the cue custom built with a great balance reflective of the cue specs you provided. Bob Owen built my cue butt to the exact weight I requested.......he was off by <2 grams on my cue butt and it has an ivory butt, a ton of ivory inlays and 4 ivory/ebony Bushka rings. Not many cue-makers are interested in taking on that challenge and Bob told me at the outset he'd build my cue within 1/10th oz. of my cue weight. Well, he wasn't bragging but he sure got everything dea perfect and there's not a lot of cue-makers that can do that.

That's why you pay more for some custom cues......no long wait when the cue is used, impeccable workmanship, outstanding cue craftsmanship in matching woods and meticulous milling techniques, painstaking assembly and flawless design & finish........it's just worth more which is pretty easy to understand.

As far as depreciating, that principle only applies when the market forces are in equilibrium. However, when there is a genuine scarcity, and sometimes a cue might seem like a rarity, then for the cue in question you can throw depreciation out the damn window. And my closing thought is when all is said and done......when you've analyzed the cue market & prices etc,, it all still comes down to charging what the market will bear......and when it's a popular cue-maker and there's only a few of his cues around, the market will bear a lot or so it seems. With those type pool cues, depreciation isn't a factor and it's much more a case of how much profit can someone make.

Matt B.