Diamond tables - black marks on balls

jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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My old buddy Brooklyn Butch came to visit me last week and we got to playing some pool on my table, which is now three years old, and I still have to clean the black marks off the balls every other day. Butch, who is a pretty clever guy, told me that he would take care of that problem once and for all. What he did was first clean the pocket liners real good with a damp cloth. He must have cleaned each pocket three times. Then he applied Thompson's Water Seal to the pocket liners. He did this a couple of times as well. We let it dry overnight and now, VOLIA, no more black marks on the balls! Thank you Butch!

By the way, Butch has been around forever, and traveled the roads with many top players. He has very strong opinions about the players from the 60's and 70's, and he is pretty knowledgeable imo. I'd love to get him to post on here, but that is doubtful. Butch traveled with Fats for years back in the 60's and with Danny D. for quite a while as well. Billy Incardona, Bob Hunter and Jeff Carter are a few of his good buddies. Butch kind of looked out for a lot of us years ago. He was legendary in the pool world. Let's just say he was one tough Mother F-cker! Butch was MMA before there was an MMA! And he still looks like a bad actor at age 60+. 6', 210, all muscle and rugged! He works out an hour or two a day. Not the biggest guy in the world, just one of the baddest. I know I wouldn't want to tangle with him and I feel sorry for anyone who does. In the old days, Butch was what we called a Tush Hog. And he still is!
 
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Thanks Jay,
We have had luck just cleaning the pocket leathers with hand sanitizer. A lot of die comes off on the towel. The Thompsons water seal sounds like a good idea. Thanks... Mikey :thumbup:
 
Diamond Table Pockets, leaving black marks!

I assume that the maker of the Diamond tables know about the problem with the pocket liner leaving black marks on the pool balls, so why haven't they taken some action to fix the problem?, seems like a simple fix at the manufacture.


David Harcrow
 
This is my only complaint on these tables. Oh and they play way to easy I wish they would toughen them up a little. I am going to try some clear leather sealer I apply to the cases I make, its pretty tough stuff.
 
jay helfert said:
My old buddy Brooklyn Butch came to visit me last week and we got to playing some pool on my table, which is now three years old, and I still have to clean the black marks off the balls every other day. Butch, who is a pretty clever guy, told me that he would take care of that problem once and for all. What he did was first clean the pocket liners real good with a damp cloth. He must have cleaned each pocket three times. Then he applied Thompson's Water Seal to the pocket liners. He did this a couple of times as well. We let it dry overnight and now, VOLIA, no more black marks on the balls! Thank you Butch!

By the way, Butch has been around forever, and traveled the roads with many top players. He has very strong opinions about the players from the 60's and 70's, and he is pretty knowledgeable imo. I'd love to get him to post on here, but that is doubtful. Butch traveled with Fats for years back in the 60's and with Danny D. for quite a while as well. Billy Incardona, Bob Hunter and Jeff Carter are a few of his good buddies. Butch kind of looked out for a lot of us years ago. He was legendary in the pool world. Let's just say he was one tough Mother F-cker! Butch was MMA before there was an MMA! And he still looks like a bad actor at age 60+. 6', 210, all muscle and rugged! He works out an hour or two a day. Not the biggest guy in the world, just one of the baddest. I know I wouldn't want to tangle with him and I feel sorry for anyone who does. In the old days, Butch was what we called a Tush Hog. And he still is!
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I looked into the problem as well. This product was recommended by a high end leather furniture company leather expert.

http://www.leathermagic.com/Pages/FABGRD.HTM

The company also recommended the cleaner and conditioner products - not sure i need them yet...

I may try this when my table is delivered...
 
Jay sounds like the story about your long time buddy could be a tidbit to maybe a new book. Well a lot of us are just hoping. My grandson is still passing your old one around to his buddies. Sir that is a great read an the pictures are great. :smile:
 
Black marks on balls from pockets

I take care of four Diamond tables, I've tried waxing the pockets, kiwi shoe polish, hand sanitizer, alcohol and now Thompsons water seal. Between each aplication I cleaned the pockets first with alcohol. I still get black marks on the balls! I used the standard Thompsons water seal, there are several kinds? If this has worked for anyone can you tell me exactly what you used? I am ready to glue properly died leather into the pockets. Diamond needs to solve this problem! I have an Adler table at home with black leather pockets and never get marks like the Diamond tables.
 
catpool9 said:
I assume that the maker of the Diamond tables know about the problem with the pocket liner leaving black marks on the pool balls, so why haven't they taken some action to fix the problem?, seems like a simple fix at the manufacture.


David Harcrow
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I took Greg Sullivan's Diamond factory tour at the Derby this year and the subject came up. He knows about the problem, it bothers the hell out of him and they're working with the manufacturer to find a solution.
 
Butch used Thompson's Water Seal "Waterproof plus Wood Protector." There are still some light scuff marks showing up from time to time, so now he has brought in the big guns, something he calls MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone). Butch is determined to rid my table of this problem once and for all. He is tenacious like RealKingCobra in this respect. He won't quit until he solves the problem completely. Thank God for perfectionists!
 
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larryt said:
I take care of four Diamond tables, I've tried waxing the pockets, kiwi shoe polish, hand sanitizer, alcohol and now Thompsons water seal. Between each aplication I cleaned the pockets first with alcohol. I still get black marks on the balls! I used the standard Thompsons water seal, there are several kinds? If this has worked for anyone can you tell me exactly what you used? I am ready to glue properly died leather into the pockets. Diamond needs to solve this problem! I have an Adler table at home with black leather pockets and never get marks like the Diamond tables.
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I recently spoke with the manufacturers of Diamond's pockets, they also make pockets for home tables. I won't get into what the problem is but they are making efforts to correct it. This manufacturer thought that alcohol was too strong, it might take off the excess dye but would also dry out the leather.
 
jay helfert said:
... so now he has brought in the big guns, something he calls MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone).
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Interesting. What'd he say it will do on the leather pockets? Remove the excess dye?

You want to be kind of careful with this stuff. Lots of ventilation as the vapors are both toxic and intoxicating - it's the stuff in model airplane "glue", for example. And it ignites fairly easily and burns real well.
 
jay helfert said:
Butch used Thompson's Water Seal "Waterproof plus Wood Protector." There are still some light scuff marks showing up from time to time, so now he has brought in the big guns, something he calls MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone). Butch is determined to rid my table of this problem once and for all. He is tenacious like RealKingCobra in this respect. He won't quit until he solves the problem completely. Thank God for perfectionists!
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Jay,

Based on reading your post a couple weeks ago I purchased and have been using the exact same Thompson's Water Seal with great results. For about a week I have been putting a couple coats on the pockets every night after I finish playing. This has cleared up the marks by at least 95% and I think by using it for another week the problem will be gone. Hope so anyway. Still, almost all gone is much better times ten compared to anything else I have tried.

Thanks.
 
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MEK is also used as an industrial paint thinner for polyurethane, the stuff is pretty high torque and yes proper ventilation is a must
 
101 uses for Simonis

I also took a tour of the Diamond factory with Aaron Berger, a Diamond Rep. He suggested lining the pocket with some black Simonis. They had a table in their showroom that they had done this to and it looked fine. I will be giving this idea a try on my home table (9' Diamond Pro).

It sounds like all of the other "chemical" solutions are temporary and need to be re-applied every so often. I've tried a few myself and they prevent the marks for a week or two, but they eventually return. At least the Simonis might be a permament fix as long as you can get it to stick well enough.
 
I was shocked at the DCC that every 1 and 9 ball was FULL of black marks. I've heard of the problem here, but I'm not used to playing on Diamond tables, and have never been in a place that had 60 tables full of black marks on balls. I've been to pool halls with GARBAGE tables, and no ball cleaners, and there were no marks on the balls.

If the dye is the problem, why not just use non-dyed leather? If the color is important, how about switching to plastic like brunswick? The GC has had a flush pocket similar to the Diamond in function since the GC4.

Are there other tables on the market that use dyed leather and do not have this problem... and I mean on a permanent basis, not only for a few days after cleaning the pocket with some magical cleaner? If so, Diamond needs to flat out steal the manufacturing process of that table. The correct term for "stealing" is "benchmarking", lol.
 
Diamond pockets are the best

I have never shot into or bridged over a better pocket.
Changing to a plastic pocket would be terrible.
Remember,the Diamond table is basically a Gold Crown with many of the
bugs gone.Bridging over a plastic pocket is one of the worst things about
most tables.
Traditional snooker tables have had this problem with leather pockets
for a 100 years...and it's no big deal..the pockets 'break in' and the marks
stop happening.
I suspect brand new balls mark a lot easier also.

The room I'm with has a 5 year-old Diamond pro-am...it leaves no marks
on the balls.
Two Diamond bar boxes are about a year old...no marks either.

The rest of the room has GC's and Valleys.
I love Gold Crowns but I don't miss shooting over a plastic pocket...
..and that includes the GC-4 AND GC-5.

Life isn't perfect..but black marks on the balls is a small price to pay for
having the best pockets I've ever seen.....
...so clean the balls until the pockets break in
 
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