Diamond tables - black marks on balls

hey jey...

jay helfert said:
My old buddy Brooklyn Butch came to visit me last week and we got to playing some pool on my table, which is now three years old, and I still have to clean the black marks off the balls every other day. Butch, who is a pretty clever guy, told me that he would take care of that problem once and for all. What he did was first clean the pocket liners real good with a damp cloth. He must have cleaned each pocket three times. Then he applied Thompson's Water Seal to the pocket liners. He did this a couple of times as well. We let it dry overnight and now, VOLIA, no more black marks on the balls! Thank you Butch!

By the way, Butch has been around forever, and traveled the roads with many top players. He has very strong opinions about the players from the 60's and 70's, and he is pretty knowledgeable imo. I'd love to get him to post on here, but that is doubtful. Butch traveled with Fats for years back in the 60's and with Danny D. for quite a while as well. Billy Incardona, Bob Hunter and Jeff Carter are a few of his good buddies. Butch kind of looked out for a lot of us years ago. He was legendary in the pool world. Let's just say he was one tough Mother F-cker! Butch was MMA before there was an MMA! And he still looks like a bad actor at age 60+. 6', 210, all muscle and rugged! He works out an hour or two a day. Not the biggest guy in the world, just one of the baddest. I know I wouldn't want to tangle with him and I feel sorry for anyone who does. In the old days, Butch was what we called a Tush Hog. And he still is!
Click to expand...

i loved your book 'pool wars'!

i think 'long ago' now you said you would write another book - you can include all of this and more...

are you too busy that you must make your friends and fans wait?

ok, i'll shut up...

all the best,
smokey
 
jack...

Jack Justis said:
You bragged loudly about being able to solve the problem in less than a week, guaranteed.

I was hoping that you would be able to teach all of us something but you failed miserably.

Highly resistant to marking is not the same as no marking.

Making promises and not keeping them is about like welching on a bet I'd say.
Click to expand...

do you have some problem with john personally?
or; do you have a personal problem?

john offered a solution. most full grain leathers, vegetable tanned have a transfer problem. and not only black. diamond knows this for sure as john does too as well as many diamond owners. and as well as i do and believe me, i use more leather in a day than you have used in your entire life.

but what have you had to add to this thread? criticism? is that what you have to offer?

so sad, really,
smokey
 
smokey said:
do you have some problem with john personally?
or; do you have a personal problem?

john offered a solution. most full grain leathers, vegetable tanned have a transfer problem. and not only black. diamond knows this for sure as john does too as well as many diamond owners. and as well as i do and believe me, i use more leather in a day than you have used in your entire life.

but what have you had to add to this thread? criticism? is that what you have to offer?

so sad, really,
smokey
Click to expand...

Jack got really good odds on a prop bet that JB would go off on him on a public forum!

And if Jack loses said wager, he has to start using JB interiors exclusively in his cases and rename them "John Justis Dream Cases"··········

So, as you can see, Jack is doing what ever he can:thud:
 
Diamond black pocket marks

Rich93 said:
As much as I admire the Diamond tables, I don't think they have tried very hard to solve this problem or they would have solved it long ago. With all the black leather furniture and car seats that we sit and sweat on without getting black dye on our clothes, as well as black purses, wallets, briefcases, etc., it can't be rocket science to solve this problem. Apparently in their heart of hearts they don't think it's very important.

Either they are not using the right leather for this application or they are not dyeing or finishing it properly. I find it entirely credible that a leatherworker like John Barton who really tried could solve the problem in a fairly short time.
Click to expand...

Rich (and others);

Diamond has been aware of this problem for quite some time. Several different approaches have been experimented with- and most would not really solve the problem. Remember, diamond buys the leather already stained (dyed). So we are at the mercy of suppliers.

I do believe they have found a solution but it is still in the testing stage.

Although I am not involved in the day to day operations, I have been involved in discussions on this topic for several years.

To suggest that Diamond really did not try - or really didn't care shows that you don't really know how Diamond functions.

We all really hope the new 'solution' does what it looks like it might do.

Mark Griffin
 
smokey said:
do you have some problem with john personally?
or; do you have a personal problem?

john offered a solution. most full grain leathers, vegetable tanned have a transfer problem. and not only black. diamond knows this for sure as john does too as well as many diamond owners. and as well as i do and believe me, i use more leather in a day than you have used in your entire life.

but what have you had to add to this thread? criticism? is that what you have to offer?

so sad, really,
smokey
Click to expand...

John's solution did not work.

John and just about everyone including, yours truly, offered solutions but the problem still exhist.

What's your take on the problem? I'm sure Diamond is all ears.

Oh, yeah, What do you do with all that leather you use? Curious.

Don't be sad....this is the internet you know
 
Jack Justis said:
John's solution did not work.

John and just about everyone including, yours truly, offered solutions but the problem still exhist.

What's your take on the problem? I'm sure Diamond is all ears.

Oh, yeah, What do you do with all that leather you use? Curious.

Don't be sad....this is the internet you know
Click to expand...

No Jack, my solution did work for the leather I tested it on. Since I don't have the leather Diamond is using I had no chance to try it out on their leather.

They said they would send me a set of pockets and I mixed up a strong batch of vinegaroon in anticipation. Went and printed out all the best advice from people who have been using it for 40 years and tested it out on my leather.

With only one application and no finish it takes a lot of effort to mark the ball. And I am not sure that the marks weren't there already. In any event I am confident that vinegaroon works. If I get the pockets then I will continue the testing. Until then I see no need to continue to the detriment of my other projects.

Smokey is probably too nice to engage you further but he has a lifetime in the shoe business and knows more about leathers than you by a country mile.

www.jbcases.com
 
Got a message recently from a guy with a Diamond table who said he used Aramith Billiard Ball Restorer to clean his pool balls, a drop on each ball before spinning them. He said that after wards the balls no longer got black marks on them. I'm just passing this info along for whatever its worth.
 
jay helfert said:
Got a message recently from a guy with a Diamond table who said he used Aramith Billiard Ball Restorer to clean his pool balls, a drop on each ball before spinning them. He said that after wards the balls no longer got black marks on them. I'm just passing this info along for whatever its worth.
Click to expand...

Post #57 in this thread.
 
Mark Griffin said:
Rich (and others);

Diamond has been aware of this problem for quite some time. Several different approaches have been experimented with- and most would not really solve the problem. Remember, diamond buys the leather already stained (dyed). So we are at the mercy of suppliers.

I do believe they have found a solution but it is still in the testing stage.

Although I am not involved in the day to day operations, I have been involved in discussions on this topic for several years.

To suggest that Diamond really did not try - or really didn't care shows that you don't really know how Diamond functions.

We all really hope the new 'solution' does what it looks like it might do.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

I apologize and wish Diamond success with the solution. Since making that post I did some more internet browsing on "black dye bleeding" or words to that effect and found that it is a more common problem that I realized with hand-dyed leather (apparently leather that is "drum-dyed", that is, dyed at the tannery, has much less of a bleeding problem, but it's more expensive). Many posters said that there is no perfect or permanent solution for a piece of leather that is bleeding dye - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure kind of thing. I have no first-hand knowledge.

Again, I apologize for popping off and implying that Diamond wasn't trying hard to find a solution.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top