Diamondball

RubixOne

Member
I am rather fond of nine-ball, but it seems like that game has some problems, particularly on the break shot, where a soft break with a pattern rack can make an absolute mockery of the game. So I decided to make my own variant of nine-ball that fixed those problems, while also having unique aspects derived from eight-ball to spice it up a bit and make the game playable on coin-operated tables. The result was Diamondball.

Diamondball is played similarly to nine-ball, but has several differences.
  • The balls are racked in a diamond shape with the 1-ball in the front, the 9-ball in the center and situated on the foot spot, and all other balls placed randomly, with all balls touching
  • Object balls that are pocketed or forced off the table remain off the table for the remainder of the rack
  • Potting the 9-ball without hitting the lowest numbered ball first is a foul (this prevents an easy win via push out)
  • The game is decided as soon as the 9-ball is off the table, or when the opponent resigns or commits three consecutive fouls
    • The player wins if they legally pocket the 9-ball or the opponent resigns
      • The former can happen earlier than the 9-ball being the sole remaining object ball on the table if it is pocketed via a combination or other indirect method
    • The player loses if they pocket the 9-ball and commit a foul, force the 9-ball off the table, or commit three consecutive fouls
    • If the 9-ball has left the table but the winner cannot be identified, the situation is handled like a stalemate
Diamondball Setup.png
 

Attachments

  • Rules of Diamondball.pdf
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most "problems" with 9 ball are fixed by playing 10 ball ;)

The rule about 8 ball losing if pocketed early, or in wrong pocket came about from bar tables, were if the 8 is sunk it's locked so the game is over. Should not be a carry over into other games since 9 ball is not really played on typical bar tables where you pay coins to get the balls out. The rules may be OK to play on a coin bar table though, in fact they seem to be geared for exactly that.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
We have a league in our town that plays similar. 1 ball on footspot, golden break counts, but after that you must call the 9. It's kind of odd, I get it, it takes some slop out of it, but at the same time I don't really want to play it since it's not 9B. It's like in our town there are good players but they are scared of luck, yet play 9B instead of 10B. I don't get it.

Jump cues... I go either way. It's fun to play without them as I'm good at kicking, but jumping is also a skill so it's kind of a wash. I'd be ok with a rule you can't use a jump cue if you hook yourself, but again it gets into if you don't like 9B there are other games.
 

RubixOne

Member
Most "problems" with 9 ball are fixed by playing 10 ball ;)

The rule about 8 ball losing if pocketed early, or in wrong pocket came about from bar tables, were if the 8 is sunk it's locked so the game is over. Should not be a carry over into other games since 9 ball is not really played on typical bar tables where you pay coins to get the balls out. The rules may be OK to play on a coin bar table though, in fact they seem to be geared for exactly that.
Sure, ten-ball does solve most of the problems with nine-ball, but that fact that it is a call-shot game drives me away from it. I am not a fan of call-shot games (except games like eight-ball). I also liked the diamond shape of the nine-ball rack, as it gives the game a unique flavor on the break shot.
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sure, ten-ball does solve most of the problems with nine-ball, but that fact that it is a call-shot game drives me away from it. I am not a fan of call-shot games (except games like eight-ball). I also liked the diamond shape of the nine-ball rack, as it gives the game a unique flavor on the break shot.

What's wrong with called shot in 10 ball or even 9 ball? The point of pool games played properly is aiming, making the ball and playing position, they are deliberate actions. The only game that is NOT called shot is 9 ball, and maybe one pocket but that has one pocket you are shooting at anyway so technically it is half of a called shot game LOL. 8 ball, straight pool, banks, 10 ball are all called shot in standard world rules. Honestly the only players I run into that like 9 ball due to the randomness of it are those that can't play very well or at least not as well as their opponent so they want that extra edge of being able to crap a ball in or win by making the 9 on some random shot.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We have a league in our town that plays similar. 1 ball on footspot, golden break counts, but after that you must call the 9. It's kind of odd, I get it, it takes some slop out of it, but at the same time I don't really want to play it since it's not 9B. It's like in our town there are good players but they are scared of luck, yet play 9B instead of 10B. I don't get it.

Jump cues... I go either way. It's fun to play without them as I'm good at kicking, but jumping is also a skill so it's kind of a wash. I'd be ok with a rule you can't use a jump cue if you hook yourself, but again it gets into if you don't like 9B there are other games.

I don't like contradictorily rules like "called 9 but not on the break and no other shot is called". If it's called 9, it should not count on the break either. And if it's called 9, may as well just play the whole game that way. One time I do not mind random shots in 9 ball, when it's an even race tournament and there are weaker players playing. Then the random 9 ball and other slop shots can even out the race for them vs being an almost automatic loss to a better player.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most "problems" with 9 ball are fixed by playing 10 ball ;)

The rule about 8 ball losing if pocketed early, or in wrong pocket came about from bar tables, were if the 8 is sunk it's locked so the game is over. Should not be a carry over into other games since 9 ball is not really played on typical bar tables where you pay coins to get the balls out. The rules may be OK to play on a coin bar table though, in fact they seem to be geared for exactly that.
When we played 9-ball on coin operated tables there are plenty of Stripes left over in case somebody scratched while pocketing the nine. Just use the 10 ball instead.
 

RubixOne

Member
What's wrong with called shot in 10 ball or even 9 ball? The point of pool games played properly is aiming, making the ball and playing position, they are deliberate actions. The only game that is NOT called shot is 9 ball, and maybe one pocket but that has one pocket you are shooting at anyway so technically it is half of a called shot game LOL. 8 ball, straight pool, banks, 10 ball are all called shot in standard world rules. Honestly the only players I run into that like 9 ball due to the randomness of it are those that can't play very well or at least not as well as their opponent so they want that extra edge of being able to crap a ball in or win by making the 9 on some random shot.
When I say call-shot games, I mean games where on each shot you must, at minimum, specify the ball you wish to hit and which pocket you wish to sink that ball into. By this definition, games like ten-ball and kaisa (a cue sport played mainly in Finland) are call-shot games, but eight-ball, nine-ball, blackball (aka UK eight-ball), snooker, and one-pocket are not. Eight-ball and snooker are what I would consider "partial call-shot" games, as there are certain times that you have to call a ball (snooker, after pocketing a red) or a pocket (eight-ball, after all balls in your group are cleared from the table), but never both.
 

Vahmurka

...and I get all da rolls
Silver Member
games like ten-ball and kaisa (a cue sport played mainly in Finland) are call-shot games, but eight-ball, nine-ball, blackball (aka UK eight-ball), snooker, and one-pocket are not. Eight-ball and snooker are what I would consider "partial call-shot" games
Pool is (or should be) played by World Standardized Rules. According to these, 8-Ball is a call shot game, where a player is expected to nominate both the ball and the pocket for this ball. End of. :)
 

RubixOne

Member
Pool is (or should be) played by World Standardized Rules. According to these, 8-Ball is a call shot game, where a player is expected to nominate both the ball and the pocket for this ball. End of. :)
So apparently, eight-ball is a call shot game, but to my knowledge, no one seems to ever verbally call their shots, except for the pocket for the 8-ball. I don't remember the last time I called a ball or pocket for anything other than the pocket for the 8-ball.
 
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boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
What's wrong with called shot in 10 ball or even 9 ball? The point of pool games played properly is aiming, making the ball and playing position, they are deliberate actions.
So you're playing scared. Luck is 18% of the game. Seize it. 🤷‍♂️

Offer to play them for $$$ on 9B. They might give you a lesson on 3 way shots. Can you think 3 shots ahead? Gambol.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
So apparently, eight-ball is a call shot game, but to my knowledge, no one seems to ever verbally call their shots, except for the pocket for the 8-ball. I don't remember the last time I called a ball or pocket for anything other than the pocket for the 8-ball.
The only question I have is, how many patches are on your vest?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When we played 9-ball on coin operated tables there are plenty of Stripes left over in case somebody scratched while pocketing the nine. Just use the 10 ball instead.

Correct, but I am pretty sure I read that the rules of 8 ball were done for the bar tables where you loose the 8 ball if you sink it early in the locked storage so any 8 made early or with a scratch is a loss. I may be wrong about that but there is a memory bouncing around my head for that hehe. Since 9 ball was played by the better players on the 9 footers the rules were developed to match that setup vs the locked bar tables.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So apparently, eight-ball is a call shot game, but to my knowledge, no one seems to ever verbally call their shots, except for the pocket for the 8-ball. I don't remember the last time I called a ball or pocket for anything other than the pocket for the 8-ball.

In games that are called shot the player only calls the non-obvious shots, and among the good players they don't even call the 8 ball if they know they are playing with an honest player. Usually the ones that yell about you not calling the 8 will tend to try to cheat if they can get away with it themselves. Heck, some of the players I play I don't even bother calling banks or combos, they know if I did not mean to shot the shot that way I will walk away and it's their turn. Those shots can be pretty obvious also, one rail banks, even kicks where the object ball is close to a pocket, if someone hits those but does not say anything about calling the pocket I just assume they were going for the shot. With a few exceptions of course LOL, there are some players I know that I have to watch carefully or they will try to pull some moves. Which is a nice way of saying "cheat" ;)

Plus you may have seen games that were not being played by call shot rules, unless you were watching a pro match. APA league for example is not called shot, and a random game you watch they may not have been playing called shot. I would say most games played by beginners or people used to bar rules are played by slop, people that are at least C level of play play called shot 8 ball. Unless they grew up only playing in a league like APA where it's played as a slop game except the 8.
 
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