Did Brunswick Fix The GC4 Frame?

[jconant44]

I've been preparing for a visit from RKC in the next few months. He's agreed to give my GC4 a complete face lift when he swings through the SW. Needless to say I've been trying to digest everything I can about table maintenance in general, and RKC's methods, specifically with regard to GC4s. Hopefully I'll be able to learn enough to be dangerous.:grin:

Anyway, DogsPlayingPool was kind enough to send me a link to a thread that talked about the GC4 frame design flaw, and how RKC devised a method to fix it, (very clean fix btw). But when I looked under mine, I found no such flaw! It appears Brunswich may have re-designed the frame by the time I bought mine in 2005. What do you guys think? Did they correct it, do I have the wrong frame, or am I just looking at this the wrong way?

James

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I wouldn't worry to much about "studying up" before he gets there. He'll school you once he starts work. And from what I understand school is not out until the table's perfect. :grin-square::wink:

 

[realkingcobra]

I've been preparing for a visit from RKC in the next few months. He's agreed to give my GC4 a complete face lift when he swings through the SW. Needless to say I've been trying to digest everything I can about table maintenance in general, and RKC's methods, specifically with regard to GC4s. Hopefully I'll be able to learn enough to be dangerous.:grin:

Anyway, DogsPlayingPool was kind enough to send me a link to a thread that talked about the GC4 frame design flaw, and how RKC devised a method to fix it, (very clean fix btw). But when I looked under mine, I found no such flaw! It appears Brunswich may have re-designed the frame by the time I bought mine in 2005. What do you guys think? Did they correct it, do I have the wrong frame, or am I just looking at this the wrong way?

James

View attachment 111818

View attachment 111819

You may have a GC4 set of rails and skirts, but that slate frame is a GC5, problem fixed:grin:

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Booyah! :grin-square:

Perhaps we now need to see some pics of the entire table. lol

 

[jconant44]

You may have a GC4 set of rails and skirts, but that slate frame is a GC5, problem fixed:grin:

It appears I went from one of the worst GC frames to one of the best with the stroke of a post. How cool is that. Thanks for the info RKC. Looking forward to meeting you when you swing by. Best of luck with your DVD venture. I'll be one of your customers there as well.

James

 

[jconant44]

Booyah! :grin-square:

Perhaps we now need to see some pics of the entire table. lol

Actually, my Avatar is a photo of my GC4. Thanks again for your help.

 

[junkbond]

Here's a pic of a GC V frame. I noticed the triangular-shaped supports are not there on jconant44's frame, although it does otherwise look like a 5. Any idea why this might be, Glen?

Howard

 

[jconant44]

Ah, the plot thickens. The pictures I posted were taken at the foot of the table. It didn't occur to me to look at the other end. I assumed they'd be the same. However, after seeing your post Howard, I took another look. It appears the head end has the triangle braces and the foot doesn't, very strange. I do remember that when they originally delivered the table it came with nickel pocket castings, bronze feet, and the head skirt was for an 8 foot instead of a 9 foot. It took another trip for them to assemble the right parts, (at least I thought they assembled the right parts). However, that doesn't explain why the frame is different on one end than the other, go figure.

 

[junkbond]

Very strange. My GC-V has those braces at foot and head. Does your table have the slate levelers in the frame? Maybe you have a very rare Gold Crown 4.5.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

This is actually very interesting. I know that there was a problem with the GC4 frame that was resolved with the GC5 but frankly, looking at the pictures I don't see that much difference really so I'm not quite sure I get it.

And then there is the "Case of the Missing Triangle Braces".

In any event, the table will be right when RKC is done.

 

[jconant44]

Very strange. My GC-V has those braces at foot and head. Does your table have the slate levelers in the frame? Maybe you have a very rare Gold Crown 4.5.

Yes, I have the slate levelers. GC4.5, I like it. I'll wait and see what RKC thinks. Perhaps an angle iron fix side to side across the foot rail is in order, we'll see.

 

[realkingcobra]

On a GC4 frame, the end rail timber is bolted to the ends of the long side frame timbers. On a GC5 frame, the end timbers are sandwiched between the long side timber frames, and doweled to fit. The flaw in the GC4 is that the end frame timbers are actually only held in place by 2 bolts going into the long side frame timbers, and when you use the levelers to support the slate, that causes the end frame timbers to tilt down-wards at an angle due to the weight of the slate sitting on the levelers. On the GC5 frame, the side frame timbers go the whole length of the slates, therefore there's no real weight on the end timber frames, and because they're doweled to fit between the long timber frames they can't bow down even if there was no frame bolts installed. The 4's and 5's both have the triangle support blocks mounted along side the timber frames to help give extra support for the slates, but on the 4 frame they do nothing to stop the end frame cross member from sagging because it's the whole cross member that sags because the frame bolts can't hold it in place tight enough against the long main support timber frames. The triangle supports are not missing on either of them, you're just both looking at different areas of the frame is all.

Glen

 

[smokey]

i love brilliance!

best,
smokey

 

[fd_colorado]

Here is a pic of what RKC did to fix my GC4 table. I haven't had any trouble with my table. And yes, RKC will do it right.

BTW, he likes home-cooked fried chicken. :wink:

_____________________________
The Player's Game

http://www.einstein-nine.com

 

[jconant44]

On a GC4 frame, the end rail timber is bolted to the ends of the long side frame timbers. On a GC5 frame, the end timbers are sandwiched between the long side timber frames, and doweled to fit. The flaw in the GC4 is that the end frame timbers are actually only held in place by 2 bolts going into the long side frame timbers, and when you use the levelers to support the slate, that causes the end frame timbers to tilt down-wards at an angle due to the weight of the slate sitting on the levelers. On the GC5 frame, the side frame timbers go the whole length of the slates, therefore there's no real weight on the end timber frames, and because they're doweled to fit between the long timber frames they can't bow down even if there was no frame bolts installed. The 4's and 5's both have the triangle support blocks mounted along side the timber frames to help give extra support for the slates, but on the 4 frame they do nothing to stop the end frame cross member from sagging because it's the whole cross member that sags because the frame bolts can't hold it in place tight enough against the long main support timber frames. The triangle supports are not missing on either of them, you're just both looking at different areas of the frame is all.

Glen

Thanks Glen. Once again you've hit the nail, (or should I say staple), on the head. Sounds like I'm in good shape on the frame. Thanks everyone for your input. It appears this thread has run its course. To sum up, it appears I ended up with some sort of hybrid in the mixup when the table was delivered. GC4 rails and skirts on a GC5 frame as RKC pointed out. I think I ended up coming out pretty well in the deal. As a final note, thanks to fd_Colorado for the tip on the home-cooked fried chicked. :smile:

 

[sausage]

Cobra: can you please up two pics showing the difference between the GC4 and GC5? i'm having a hard time visualizing the flaw in the GC4.

 

[jconant44]

GC4 vs GC5 Frames

Cobra: can you please up two pics showing the difference between the GC4 and GC5? i'm having a hard time visualizing the flaw in the GC4.

Please take the following with a grain of salt. I'm not a table mechanic. But these folks have been so helpful I'd like to give back when I can. You can probably tell by the contents of this thread that my table is a hybrid, somewhere between a GC4 and a GC5. The following diagram is what I have gleened from this and other threads as the primary difference between the 2 frames. The design flaw on the GC4 frame is the fact that the end frames, (timber and slate base containing the slate levelers), are bolted to the ends of the long side frame timbers as opposed to being sandwiched between them like they are on the GC5. As you can see from the diagram, all 5 of the slate levelers along the end rail of the GC4 apply torque against the 2 bolts holding the assembly to the side timbers. This torque can cause the end frame assemblies to drop. The GC5 setup on the other hand has 4 of the 5 slate levelers positioned on the full length side assemblies and as such provide a much stronger frame.

As I said, I'm not a mechanic. I'm hoping those on this forum who are, will critique the drawing and let me know where it needs corrected if necessary.

 

[sausage]

thanks for that info. i had a GC1 for twenty two years and sold it about 7 months ago. i will probably buy another down the road and this is good to know.