Did I cheat?

S

Splinterhands

Banned
This happened to me a while back. I was playing a guy, who I really don't care for, in a nine ball tournament. We were playing a race to 3 and were using coins to mark the scores. He wins the first game and marks the score. He wins the second game, but doesn't mark it. I didn't say anything because I figure he knows and so does everyone else. He wins the last game and as I'm getting up to shake hands, he starts pulling balls out of the pockets to play another game. I was shocked, but didn't say anything. Turns out, I won the next 3 games and went on to finish 2nd instead of 4th. Did I cheat or is it his responsibility to keep his own score? If it was somebody I liked I would have let him know.
 
Splinterhands said:
This happened to me a while back. I was playing a guy, who I really don't care for, in a nine ball tournament. We were playing a race to 3 and were using coins to mark the scores. He wins the first game and marks the score. He wins the second game, but doesn't mark it. I didn't say anything because I figure he knows and so does everyone else. He wins the last game and as I'm getting up to shake hands, he starts pulling balls out of the pockets to play another game. I was shocked, but didn't say anything. Turns out, I won the next 3 games and went on to finish 2nd instead of 4th. Did I cheat or is it his responsibility to keep his own score? If it was somebody I liked I would have let him know.
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I think it was cheating, But thats my 2 cents worth.
 
You saw the opportunity to cheat and you took the advantage of it. Well, I wouldn't say you cheated, you just showed poor sportsmanship by hiding the true score.

It's like you see a senior citizen dropping his/hers wallet and you go and pick it up, take the money and throw away the wallet without an effort to return it. Now, did you just rob the person who dropped the wallet ? I would say no, but I still think you did wrong.
 
yeah, you cheated. you're an awful human being. welcome to the club

Splinterhands said:
This happened to me a while back. I was playing a guy, who I really don't care for, in a nine ball tournament. We were playing a race to 3 and were using coins to mark the scores. He wins the first game and marks the score. He wins the second game, but doesn't mark it. I didn't say anything because I figure he knows and so does everyone else. He wins the last game and as I'm getting up to shake hands, he starts pulling balls out of the pockets to play another game. I was shocked, but didn't say anything. Turns out, I won the next 3 games and went on to finish 2nd instead of 4th. Did I cheat or is it his responsibility to keep his own score? If it was somebody I liked I would have let him know.
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There are two sides... one as mentioned above, and the fact that he more responsibility in ensuring that the accurate score is kept, mainly for himself.
 
You didn't really cheat, but it was unsportsmanlike. However, it was his own fault; he should have moved his coin. Would you tell your opponent if he was shooting at the wrong ball? Had I been in your situation, as long as I didn't care for the guy, I probably would have done the same thing, as most of us on here would have, too.

How much was difference in the payout?
 
NewGuy said:
Yes, you cheated. He won 3 games before you did.
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I wish I had seen this earlier and warned you guys. He asked this same question on Jan 25th, 05 on CCB, worded a little differently, I believe, and got his panties in a wad when he didn't get the answers he wanted!

Here's the original wording of his CCB post:

This happened to me last night. I was playing a guy, who I really don't care for, in a nine ball tournament. We were playing a race to 3 and were using coins to mark the scores. He wins the first game and marks the score. He wins the second game, but doesn't mark it. I didn't say anything because I figure he knows and so does everyone else. He wins the last game and as I'm getting up to shake hands, he starts pulling balls out of the pockets to play another game. I was shocked, but didn't say anything. Turns out, I won the next 3 games and went on to finish 2nd instead of 4th. Did I cheat or is it his responsibility to keep his own score? If it was somebody I liked I would have let him know.

OH, WAIT! It isn't worded differently, it's copied and pasted from his CCB post! Damn, do AZ posters not at least deserve the effort of typing and rewording? :)

Here's one of his reactions to the answers:

I'm not going to apologize to him, I'm not buying him a drink and I certainly could care less if I'm ever friends with the guy. It's easy to criticize someone from behind your computer, but if you were in the same situation maybe you'd have done the same thing. It's obvious that most of you know each other personally, otherwise I would expect a few more..honest answers. You won't give your true feelings for fear of rejection by your peers. I, on the other hand, could care less if you think I cheated or not. TAP, TAP, TAP. By the way, when is the CCB tournament this fall?


See, if you don't like the answers, then you state that you "could care less", even though you asked for opinions in the first place. Curious to see if he'll type a new answer here or if he'll just copy and paste his previous answer to the CCB thread he started.

STAY TUNED IN FOR HIS NEXT POST "Did I Get Cheated?" This is sort of a follow up sympathy post on CCB since he got hammered on the "Did I Cheat" thread. Two days lag time between the two threads on CCB... wonder how long it will take here?

Later,
Bob
 
Cheat?

Maybe not in a literal sense, but you know what it says about your character ( or lack of ) or else you wouldn't need our validation.
 
Last edited:
Splinterhands said:
This happened to me a while back. I was playing a guy, who I really don't care for, in a nine ball tournament. We were playing a race to 3 and were using coins to mark the scores. He wins the first game and marks the score. He wins the second game, but doesn't mark it. I didn't say anything because I figure he knows and so does everyone else. He wins the last game and as I'm getting up to shake hands, he starts pulling balls out of the pockets to play another game. I was shocked, but didn't say anything. Turns out, I won the next 3 games and went on to finish 2nd instead of 4th. Did I cheat or is it his responsibility to keep his own score? If it was somebody I liked I would have let him know.
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In my opinion score-keeping is sacred. Make a mistake in your favor in a money-match and I'll quit you up (and I've done it). Personally, I think it shows a lot of class to point out a discrepancy you've noticed and you never know when that'll pay off.

See, when I play for money, I always make sure I give good racks and I really try to be polite (contrary to what I might have done when I was much younger). My reason is that I never want my opponent to hate me. I want them to enjoy themselves, especially when they're losing.

This line of thinking leads me to believe that it's in my best interest to point out that my opponent made a mistake with the score, even if it's a tournament and especially if this is someone I may gamble with. Even if he doesn't notice, there's a chance someone else will and may point it out to him. I'd rather not get into the worst case scenario but under normal circumstances, you're simply adding problems for yourself. The last thing you want is someone gunning for you.

Success in the Pool World is not strictly Machiavellian. It isn't always win at all costs all the time. Aside from the prudent or moral implications, there is a long-term plan that should always be referred to. Is this move worth the potential problems I might have to endure? The answer isn't always the same, even in your home room but you should consider it nonetheless.
 
It also depends on what you are playing for, and why you are playing. I would definitely not have won this way but for me, pool is a pastime: something I do to make friends, relax, and enjoy myself. For example, if I just touch the cue ball with my tip or make a double hit and no-one sees it, I call it right away.

If you are playing for money that would determine if you are able to put food on your family's table, then I can understand if you wouldn't call it. If it it's just a bit of an extra money in your pocket, then call it. You'll feel better about yourself. Winning isn't everything.
 
hobokenapa said:
It also depends on what you are playing for, and why you are playing. I would definitely not have won this way but for me, pool is a pastime: something I do to make friends, relax, and enjoy myself. For example, if I just touch the cue ball with my tip or make a double hit and no-one sees it, I call it right away.

If you are playing for money that would determine if you are able to put food on your family's table, then I can understand if you wouldn't call it. If it it's just a bit of an extra money in your pocket, then call it. You'll feel better about yourself. Winning isn't everything.
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Interestingly (and I'm sure you can verify this for me), in the Snooker Tour, you are obligated to call a foul upon yourself. Failure to do so is so unsportsmanlike, you can be banned from ever playing again.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Interestingly (and I'm sure you can verify this for me), in the Snooker Tour, you are obligated to call a foul upon yourself. Failure to do so is so unsportsmanlike, you can be banned from ever playing again.
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That's funny because as I was writing that line, I going to add exactly the same thing. I was brought up seeing it on TV so it is engrained into me. I'll always remember Willie Thorne calling that on himself when he had a simple clearance for his first major title. Real class.
 
Cane said:
I wish I had seen this earlier and warned you guys. He asked this same question on Jan 25th, 05 on CCB, worded a little differently, I believe, and got his panties in a wad when he didn't get the answers he wanted!

Here's the original wording of his CCB post:

This happened to me last night. I was playing a guy, who I really don't care for, in a nine ball tournament. We were playing a race to 3 and were using coins to mark the scores. He wins the first game and marks the score. He wins the second game, but doesn't mark it. I didn't say anything because I figure he knows and so does everyone else. He wins the last game and as I'm getting up to shake hands, he starts pulling balls out of the pockets to play another game. I was shocked, but didn't say anything. Turns out, I won the next 3 games and went on to finish 2nd instead of 4th. Did I cheat or is it his responsibility to keep his own score? If it was somebody I liked I would have let him know.

OH, WAIT! It isn't worded differently, it's copied and pasted from his CCB post! Damn, do AZ posters not at least deserve the effort of typing and rewording? :)

Here's one of his reactions to the answers:

I'm not going to apologize to him, I'm not buying him a drink and I certainly could care less if I'm ever friends with the guy. It's easy to criticize someone from behind your computer, but if you were in the same situation maybe you'd have done the same thing. It's obvious that most of you know each other personally, otherwise I would expect a few more..honest answers. You won't give your true feelings for fear of rejection by your peers. I, on the other hand, could care less if you think I cheated or not. TAP, TAP, TAP. By the way, when is the CCB tournament this fall?


See, if you don't like the answers, then you state that you "could care less", even though you asked for opinions in the first place. Curious to see if he'll type a new answer here or if he'll just copy and paste his previous answer to the CCB thread he started.

STAY TUNED IN FOR HIS NEXT POST "Did I Get Cheated?" This is sort of a follow up sympathy post on CCB since he got hammered on the "Did I Cheat" thread. Two days lag time between the two threads on CCB... wonder how long it will take here?

Later,
Bob
Click to expand...

Thank you, Bob. I've been wondering why he post as he does and now I know.

Jeff Livingston
 
did I cheat

If you have to get someone to tell you you cheated your in trouble with life son, there are a lot of decission you ar to make in life , dont relie on a billiard form to supply all the answers. you knew deep down the answer, be truthful with yourself. and live happy "STICK" :) :) :)
 
Are You Serious

Did I cheat? In all fairness, you are DAM right you cheated. What other areas of your life are you having trouble justifying? Tell you the truth, I think you ought to go up to the guy next time you see him and tell him the truth and make it up. Whatever you cheated him out of with your unsportsmanlike dishonest conduct. If you did that where I play, Bitch Slap ain't the word for what would happen.
Donny :rolleyes:
 
If You have to Ask.......

If you have to ASk you already know the answer. Personaly my Honor is worth more than a weekly pot. But I am the kinda guy you can trust with your wallet.
 
Mmmm....

There have been different rules at various times.

Some money matches, if a player fouls and his opponent
does not see and call it, it is not a foul.

Many money matches are played where if you don't
'mark' your win before the next break, it doesn't count.

And many players will react differently depending on if
they are playing with someone they know or if they
are playing a stranger or road player.

And some players will react differently depending on
their thoughts if that 1 thing will make the difference
in them winning the match or not.

All I know is when I first started playing, the general
rule of thumb was 'Let the buyer beware'.

Today, it is 'Let the seller be responsible'.

It's like if your opponent accidently taps the cue
just barely over the line when breaking, some guys
will just say, 'Break again' and some will take the
break because that really is the rules.

Most players are pretty good sports, but it also
depends on the situation as to how much they
are a good sport.
 
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