Did Monica Throw That Ball During The TV Rounds?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok, you folks that were there, and anyone else.

did Monica actually throw the '6' ball into the rail and it slammed into the opposite side pocket?

boy, sure hope that gets seen on ESPN!
that'd be great viewing, i bet so many out there would be able to relate to that. i'm sure i can. might boost the ratings a bunch.

DCP

p.s. for those of you that werent there, this happened in her match against Kim Shaw, which Monica eventually won.
 
I was in Peoria at this match, and this is all much ado about nothing. Monica pocketed a brilliant combination on the nine at 6 - 4 ahead that appeared to end the match, but she ended up scratching when the cue ball went two rails into a most unfortunate and very disheartening scratch. She did not exhibit poor sportsmanship and the commotion following the match was much more about rules than sportsmanship. Some felt the six ball that Monica moved with her hand should not have been replaced, that it should have been Shaw's choice whether to have it replaced. Certainly, in an untelevised match, any ball moved by a player (intentionally or unintentionally) with their hand will only be replaced to its original position if the player not shooting opts for it. In this case, the tournament director, Steve Tipton, did not offer Shaw the choice. I can't say whether this was a referee's oversight or it just means that different rules apply to the WPBA TV rounds. As Shaw scratched on the replaced six ball that she shot with ball in hand and Monica ran out moments later, the matter became important, and I can understand why some questioned how it was handled.

I strongly disagree with any suggestion that Monica exhibited poor sportsmanship. My suspicion here is that Kim Shaw should have been given the option to leave the six down and take ball in hand on the seven, a position from which a runout would have been far simpler, and from which the race to seven would likely have reached 6 - 5, rather than ending in a 7 - 4 final score in Monica's favor.
 
Rules schoars please

Just supplementing my last post, but I would like to hear from the rules scholars. What are the rules governing a player knocking an object ball into a pocket with their hand? Also, does whether it was intentional have any bearing on which rules apply?
 
Gotta love it

I would think that if a player picks up a ball and tosses it on the table, they forfeit the game. Yes, it is poor sportsmanship.
Referee's instruction 2.19- ILLEGALLY CAUSING BALL TO MOVE ( I think this applies) Any player who, in the referee's judgement, intentionally causes a ball to move by any illegal means will lose the game/match by forfeit.
It is called " Unsportsmanlike conduct ".
I am sorry man, you just can't pick up a ball in the middle of a match and throw it on the table.
Don P. :cool:
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
I would think that if a player picks up a ball and tosses it on the table, they forfeit the game. Yes, it is poor sportsmanship.
Referee's instruction 2.19- ILLEGALLY CAUSING BALL TO MOVE ( I think this applies) Any player who, in the referee's judgement, intentionally causes a ball to move by any illegal means will lose the game/match by forfeit.
It is called " Unsportsmanlike conduct ".
I am sorry man, you just can't pick up a ball in the middle of a match and throw it on the table.
Don P. :cool:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the education, Don. What's the rule if a ball is unintentionally (seemingly Steve Tipton's interpretation, whether correct or not) knocked into a pocket?
 
sjm said:
Thanks for the education, Don. What's the rule if a ball is unintentionally (seemingly Steve Tipton's interpretation, whether correct or not) knocked into a pocket?
Click to expand...
That falls under General Rules, 3.21- It is a foul to strike, touch or in any way make contact with the cue ball in play or any object balls in play with anything but the cue tip. When a referee is presiding over a match, any ball moved during a standard foul must be returned as closely as possible to it's origional position as judged by the referee, and the incoming player does not have the option of restoration.
Under rules for tournament play, 1.16.1- It is a foul when a referee is presiding over a match. When there is not a referee, it is not a foul. If it occurs, the player should allow the TD to restore the balls to their correct position. It is a foul to play another shot before the TD restores the ball.
At the non shooting players option, the disturbed balls can be left in their new positions. In this case, they are considered restored.
Don P. :cool:
 
I'm just making this reply because this post made me think of a local rule we use when playing a casual or maybe not quite so casual game of 9-ball.

Simply, if the ball you bump is not the 1 que ball, 2 object ball, or 3 next sequential ball after the object ball, then you just keep shooting. If it was 1 2 or 3, it is a foul and ball in hand to the opponent.

Is this played anywhere else?
Was it ever any kind of official rule?

JR
 
Ok

Captain JR, the post was about tournament play. Casual play is a whole nother story. Anything can go. Sharking, goosing, laughing, moving balls, getting naked, you name it. It is just for fun. Now when the cash is on the line, it is another story. Fact is, rules should be established before play. You will find all kinds of rules everywhere you go. It is important that one know the World Standardized Rules, not play by them. I carry a rule book with me just in case someone wants to argue.
Don P. :cool:
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
Sharking, goosing, laughing, moving balls, getting naked, you name it. Don P. :cool:
Click to expand...

DP,
Actually, these are pretty good suggestions for making pool more popular (ie. full contact naked pool) - at least for the WPBA. Maybe you should be posting it on those other "what's wrong with pool" threads. :) :) :)
 
Williebetmore said:
DP,
Actually, these are pretty good suggestions for making pool more popular (ie. full contact naked pool) - at least for the WPBA. Maybe you should be posting it on those other "what's wrong with pool" threads. :) :) :)
Click to expand...

I have some pretty interesting games of strip nine ball with my wife. I do do a little sandbagging though. I ain't going into what the bet is, HA, HA!!!! That be my secret. I win even when I lose.
Don P. :D
 
the bca stance on home games of strip pool allow sandbagging, but teabagging is strictly prohibited as an intentional delay of game.
 
larrynj1 said:
the bca stance on home games of strip pool allow sandbagging, but teabagging is strictly prohibited as an intentional delay of game.
Click to expand...

No teabagging going on in my basement!!!!!!
Don P. :cool:
 
Good choices

Donald A. Purdy said:
That falls under General Rules, 3.21- It is a foul to strike, touch or in any way make contact with the cue ball in play or any object balls in play with anything but the cue tip. When a referee is presiding over a match, any ball moved during a standard foul must be returned as closely as possible to it's origional position as judged by the referee, and the incoming player does not have the option of restoration.
Under rules for tournament play, 1.16.1- It is a foul when a referee is presiding over a match. When there is not a referee, it is not a foul. If it occurs, the player should allow the TD to restore the balls to their correct position. It is a foul to play another shot before the TD restores the ball.
At the non shooting players option, the disturbed balls can be left in their new positions. In this case, they are considered restored.
Don P. :cool:
Click to expand...



Very good citations of the rules that apply. A side note for clarity is that "presiding" means that a referee is in charge of the match from start to finish. That is, they rack, call shots if required, replace balls, clarify rules when appropriate, keep score and watch all hits and call all fouls. If it was a TV match then Steve is presiding and must replace the ball as near as possible (no player options). Normally the moved ball is replaced and ball in hand for the incoming player (all ball fouls).

But I think the WPBA continues to play under the cue ball fouls only rule through all rounds of play. It is a tournament decision because ladies don't like to have the rules change during the event. This may be where the misunderstanding happened with the ladies. Hard to say I didn't see it.

Don you would make a good candidate for being a ref-

Craig ;)
 
Craig Arnold said:
Very good citations of the rules that apply. A side note for clarity is that "presiding" means that a referee is in charge of the match from start to finish. That is, they rack, call shots if required, replace balls, clarify rules when appropriate, keep score and watch all hits and call all fouls. If it was a TV match then Steve is presiding and must replace the ball as near as possible (no player options). Normally the moved ball is replaced and ball in hand for the incoming player (all ball fouls).

But I think the WPBA continues to play under the cue ball fouls only rule through all rounds of play. It is a tournament decision because ladies don't like to have the rules change during the event. This may be where the misunderstanding happened with the ladies. Hard to say I didn't see it.

Don you would make a good candidate for being a ref-

Craig ;)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the input and the compliment. Just might do that. I am a Certified BCA Instructor now. I was a recognized intructor in 1999.
Don P. :cool:
 
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