Did Ortmann foul at 1:05 ? Match goes hill/hill btw.
http://youtu.be/qFIgSWvK3hQ
http://youtu.be/qFIgSWvK3hQ
Did Ortmann foul? Bustamante says Yes!
- Thread starter Magog30
- Start date
Yes. Its at 1:05:00 btw
I think yes, but since Busty didn't ask for a ref to watch the hit, the call goes to the shooter. The 6 ball came out of the collision too straight to have been hit by the CB after the OB; if the OB was hit first the 6 ball would have gone more toward the corner pocket, IMHO...but it's hard to tell from the angle.
The cue ball moved to our left after the shot. If the cue ball hits the nine first, I don't think it can do that, especially with left english.
Video review might have been possible. It's permitted by the rules.
You can't see on that video which was hit first. You can see the outbound path of the cue ball. That tells you what you need to know.
There is a referee presiding over the match. No need to call a referee.
BTW, at 1:08:00 Django appears to be explaining to the ref what Bob said - you can tell based on the cue ball movement.
Can anyone understand that they are saying (or what Ralph Eckert is saying)?
Gideon
Here is a 5Meg slow-motion clip of just the shot:
http://sfbilliards.com/Ortmann_vs_Bustamante.mov
I think in the first frame where the 6 ball has moved the stripe (13?) has moved also but it is towards us so it is hard to see.
The motion of the cue ball is easy to see.
http://sfbilliards.com/Ortmann_vs_Bustamante.mov
I think in the first frame where the 6 ball has moved the stripe (13?) has moved also but it is towards us so it is hard to see.
The motion of the cue ball is easy to see.
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You got that right!
You no call ref, you no get call..., to the shooter it goes.
You no call ref, you no get call..., to the shooter it goes.
Foul
No way can you hit the cue ball with left english and have the cue ball move to the right. Busty was correct. Bad call by the ref(s).
No way can you hit the cue ball with left english and have the cue ball move to the right. Busty was correct. Bad call by the ref(s).
Im seeing the 13 move first. Direct your focus to the 13, and see the 6 in your peripheral vision. 13 appears to move first. Not 100% certain though.
This is what I saw. Although you can't really see, from the angle, the cue ball making contact, if you can manage to stop it at just the right time you can see the 6 move first
There is no frame where the 13 has moved but the 6 has not moved. Try single-stepping the frames.
Still seeing the 6 move first.
The last frame where neither object ball has moved has the cue ball directly "above" the 13 ball. In the next frame, the 6 has clearly moved, but it looks to me like the 13 has moved as well. The movement of the 6 is easy to see because it is across the direction of the camera. The movement of the 13 is hard to see because it is more directly towards the camera.
But all that makes no difference because you can judge this shot easily by the movement of the cue ball. You don't need a frame-by-frame to see that.
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You don't have to call a ref when there is already a ref presiding over the match.
But there is a ref. He's right there during the whole match.
Are you suggesting that when a referee is presiding over a match the non-shooting player is supposed to say "wake up, ref, this is a close one! Better watch the hit!"?
Gideon
Maybe sometimes. I have seen refs that stand like statues 10 feet from the table. They are never in a good position to see a hit. Sometimes they need prompting. What they really need is training.