Difference btwn. a CM & Custom CM

jlrowe said:
I agree on the SW cues. Its called prestige pricing from a marketing standpoint. Price the product high. This will evoke the perception of high quality and consumers will associate your brand with quality. Well make it seem that everyone is wanting one(hence the waiting list) lower the volume =Big $. .
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Somehow SW is the only one who figured that out?
If they lowered their price and doubled their output, the cue flippers will have a field day.
I believe they make less than 100 cues a year ( 20% goes to Vince Tedesco afaik ).
Would you call someone a custom cuemaker if he made more than 100 cues a year? How about 200 cues a year?
 
I also think Sheldon is right, individuals have their own definition of what constitutes a custom cue maker. I think it is pretty obvious what defines a custom cue maker, but what is open to interpretation is the degree...the place at which a cue maker will draw the line.

Look at it as a gradient or index from 0 to 100.

Custom builder Index 0:
A hypothetical builder at index 0 will build whatever cues he wants to build at whatever time, with whatever materials. He gets a call from a customer who asks if he can have tip y put on a cue he builds. The builder says no that he believes his cues play best with tip x...either find another builder or have someone else change the tip.

Custom builder Index 1:
He will put whatever kind of tip you want on a cue he builds for you, but the line is drawn there.

Custom builder Index 5:
He offers 2 different tip choices, 2 different ferrule choices, 2 different wood choices for handle, 2 different wood choices for forearm, no variation in tapers, diameters, construction, rings, joint, no wraps.

Custom builder Index 25:
He offers two shaft tapers, one for playing and one for breaking, and will vary diameters and locations of taper change in shaft (but not actual taper). No variation of butt tapers or diameters. He won't change the way he does ferrules on his cues, but you have a wide range of ferrule materials and tips. Several choices of ring work...will work with several types of woods, but does refuse to work with certain ones. Your choice of wraps or clear coated, your choice of 2 joint pints and 2 joint materials, offers 3 different shaft tapers, but still won't modify butt tapers and diameters.

Ok, you get the picture...jump forward...

Custom builder Index 99:
If you can sketch and design a cue that the cue maker things would be functional, he will build it for you. Custom tapers, custom diameters, custom materials...a floating plastic fish in the butt sleeve...a blinking ferrule ran by a watch battery....this guy is a custom cue maker.

Custom builder Index 100:
Cue doesn't even have to be functional as long as the money is good.

Is the guy at index 100 the only true custom cue maker? Is the guy at index 1 a custom cue maker because you do have some say so? I think we all agree the answer to both of those questions is no.

Each builder draws a different line at a different location, and each line guards a different set of things that he will not change. The parameters of his custom cuemaking are influenced by his philosophy of what constitutes a good playing cue, his abilities and equipment, his stubbornness, and the types of services he wants to provide to his customers. The actual position on the scale that is the threshold where on the left you are NOT a custom cue maker, and on the right you ARE is open to interpretation. Except for the extremes, about the best one can objectively say is some builders offer more custom options than others.

Kelly <a custom rambler>
 
If you build one of a kind cues to your specs or the customer specs I consider you a custom cuemaker. If you mainly build production cues, but will vary it to the customer's specs then you are a custom cuemaker. So it sounds to me like you are a custom cuemaker that turns down work he does not want to do. I do the same.
 
I can only say that if I ask you to make me a cue based on my order, with the specs I specify (limited in total scope though they may be), and the materials I request - then you're a custom maker for me.
That being said, you can rest assured that I'll want your input on any bad ideas I may have. I'm not the one with the inside experience.
I don't WANT anybody making a cue for me that doesn't believe in & look forward to appreciating the finished product. I want a guy to be working "in his wheel house", & using his strengths.
A very high end, and inarguably custom, cuemaker explained to me that, in the end, I'm really just renting the cue. Lots of truth in that...
 
scdiveteam said:
"The Power of Branding and Urban Legend"

Ten year waiting list is like waiting to go on Bozo's Circus. If I had a 10 year waiting list I would train people to perform labor for individual component parts and I would do point/veneers, assembly and finishing. The 10 year list would start going down pronto.

When a contract or a deal is on the table it is smart to execute it ASAP. I am sure there are people who want a SW but don't order one cause of the wait.

Just my opinion,

Rick G
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Obviously some people don't understand that the laws of supply and demand trump the powers of branding and urban legend...
If the 10 year list started going down pronto, your name would be schon instead of southwest. Then you'd be working harder than necessary with lower profit margins, more overhead, and inevitably more work. This is why southwest does what they do. They have found a good balance, why f' it up? Funny that you know what's best for southwest.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Somehow SW is the only one who figured that out?
If they lowered their price and doubled their output, the cue flippers will have a field day.
I believe they make less than 100 cues a year ( 20% goes to Vince Tedesco afaik ).
Would you call someone a custom cuemaker if he made more than 100 cues a year? How about 200 cues a year?
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His name is Joey Gold. He understands price point. The profit margin for his dealer's is 20%, no more but maybe less. From what I understand, his yearly output has been impressive to say the least for a "one man shop" ;). His construction technique allows for higher production. Good or bad, these things are open for interpretation...
 
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It's really easy.

If you build cues with no customer in mind and sell them then you are a cue maker. If you ever change a parameter of a cue you are building to satisfy a customer's request then you are a custom cue maker. How much customizingwi you will do depends on you.

Custom means done to customer provided specifications. That specification could be as simple as making the wrap blue instead of black or it could be doing the taper exactly to the customer's instructions.

I don't do anything for a single customer that I won't put my name on. If I think that their suggestion is not going to work then I will tell them that and if they insist then I point them to my colleagues. Bottom line is that you have to make what you can be proud of and stand behind.
 
Thanx John,
I don't know about anyone else but that works for me.
I prefer to build to my own parameters but by the same token I encourage the client to exercise their options as far as tip, taper, wrap, etc.
Just about anything is an option. The wrap is significant in that it occupies approx. 40% of the handle/butt area. Changing the wrap color can greatly alter the visual character of the cue.

John, your post opened my eyes to the fact that meeting the client's requests with these options is a form of customization.
That could very easily fall under the heading of custom cue-maker.
Where do you draw the line or is there even one to be drawn?
 
KJ Cues said:
Thanx John,
I don't know about anyone else but that works for me.
I prefer to build to my own parameters but by the same token I encourage the client to exercise their options as far as tip, taper, wrap, etc.
Just about anything is an option. The wrap is significant in that it occupies approx. 40% of the handle/butt area. Changing the wrap color can greatly alter the visual character of the cue.

John, your post opened my eyes to the fact that meeting the client's requests with these options is a form of customization.
That could very easily fall under the heading of custom cue-maker.
Where do you draw the line or is there even one to be drawn?
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I draw the line at doing what the customer wants. If you include customer requests then it's a custom cue.

My real problem is with the word "custom". You see it's often used as if it were synonymous with "better". The implication that a lot of makers would like the customer to come away with is that their cues are "better" because they are "custom".

Somehow there is more prestige attached to calling yourself a custom cue maker or custom case maker.

I mean if you get down to it any change to the original piece is a customization.

So if I bought a McDermott off the rack and I had the wrap changed to leather and had the ferrule changed and the taper moved back a little by other people then I would still have a custom McDermott cue.

The fact is that it's all a big grey area. I don't know if Joey Gold does any changes to his cues for the customer now. But when I was in his shop in 2002 I asked him if he would change the way he builds a cue for a customer and he said no. I said why not. He said it's because he plays better than 90% of his customers and knows better than them what type of cue will play well.

Now this may or may not be the right attitude but as long as Joey sticks to it then he is a cue maker and not a custom cue maker.

I GUESS with that in mind I might draw a line at performance changing things. So for example if you change the decoration but not the construction then the cue is custom decorated, arrrgh I don't know. It's all grey.

Pechauer once jumped my ass on RSB for listing them among others when someone asked about which brands of production cues are good. I wouldn't consider an off the shelf Pechauer to be anything but production.

By the same token when Richard Black makes a sculpture in cue form with no customer input then it's a unique work of art and not a custom cue.

Good topic - never ending debate.
 
JB Cases said:
My real problem is with the word "custom". You see it's often used as if it were synonymous with "better". The implication that a lot of makers would like the customer to come away with is that their cues are "better" because they are "custom".
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Perfect. I'm a "Better cue maker" not custom. My cues are more betterer than the other guys.:grin-square:
 
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