DigiBall FAQ

nataddrho

nataddrho

www.digicue.net
Silver Member
This will be my last question/post about this for a while, I have most of the information I need.

I made a very simple “splash” page per request for the DigiBall product I am working on. Most of the product is complete and I am just working on the tail end of the manufacturing stage.

What questions do you have? I’d like to generate a FAQ for this page.


Thanks
 
Only thing I can't wrap my head around is how you use gravity as a reference, so you don't have to align the ball prior to the shot. You don't have to explain this since when it comes to matters of physics I just pretend like I know what everybody is talking about. At some point, I would like to see a video of this in action. I know that's obvious.

This really seems like a cool product. Have you already considered rolling out other size versions (billiards, snooker) if this is successful?
 
Will it show directional RPM after cue impact AND at moment of impact with object ball? To me, knowing those two data points would almost give someone all they need. MPH at both wouldn't hurt, but directional RPM at both is more important I think
 
Love where this product is headed!

I’m a techie (25 yrs of coding / product dev / tech startup founding experience with 9 years spent in Silicon Valley doing venture-backed startups, 2-time Sequoia Cap EIR and YC alum), so if you need a beta tester lmk.

A question and a couple of comments:

1. How will miscue detection/reporting be handled?

2. It would be cool for it to measure table speed and cushion CoR - seems doable based on initial velocity and distance traveled (or rate of deceleration). Seems likely that it could also measure cloth and rail “slickness” based on magnitude of spin effects on both. Seems possible that it could measure cushion rebound angle variance compared to some benchmark. If you could pull this off, you may get more buyers from the pool of tournament players who want to quickly benchmark an unfamiliar table prior to a match.

3. I’d be more likely to buy a measles ball version for training, hope there will be an option for that.
 
Given the number of possible uses of this data (including good ideas above), will you provide a way for users to export raw data from the app?
 
bbb said:
How does you device help more than seeing if there is side spin on a measal ball when your intent is vertical axis hit?
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My current company sells, installs, and supports indoor golf simulator studios and indoor/outdoor launch monitors, so I’ll rephrase your question as a golfer might ask it:

How does a launch monitor help more than seeing if my golf ball goes left or right?

I could type a few pages on the benefits of a good launch monitor and/or sim software to one’s game, but in both golf and pool, I’ll just say that I believe good data and data viz tools can immensely help in diagnosing problems and measuring improvement.

As one quick example, one of the screenshots on the OP’s linked page showed a tightly-grouped dispersion pattern of 15 shots on the 2D face of the cueball. For those looking to improve their cuetip-to-ball contact point precision and consistency, having data like that to analyze and track over time would be invaluable. It’s similar to how a $25K TrackMan or $19K GCQuad will show dispersion patterns of golf ball impact on the clubface down to the millimeter (among many, many other valuable club and ball metrics).
 
DeadStick said:
My current company sells, installs, and supports indoor golf simulator studios and indoor/outdoor launch monitors, so I’ll rephrase your question as a golfer might ask it:

How does a launch monitor help more than seeing if my golf ball goes left or right?

I could type a few pages on the benefits of a good launch monitor and/or sim software to one’s game, but in both golf and pool, I’ll just say that I believe good data and data viz tools can immensely help in diagnosing problems and measuring improvement.
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Joe Blow golfer still doesn't know how to interpret what causes the aberrations and solve the problem. A pro instructor needs to do that. Many pro instructors do in fact use launch monitors and many don't. But they are the FIXERS. Joe Blow doesn't know how either way.
 
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Digicue sounds useful for practicing shots when you know which way the balls roll, but for some reason they don't.

Sounds perfect for trick and proposition shots.
 
nataddrho said:
Questions only please. Not opinions. Thank you.
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Was that directed at me in part or full? Would like to know, just so I don't spend more time giving general feedback/ideas.

Also: will this be an OB Cues product, or is it a side project that OBC are cool with, or a partnership? You don't have to answer of course, I'm just curious. Love the entrepreneurial spirit, and I look forward to buying the end product.
 
DeadStick said:
Was that directed at me in part or full? Would like to know, just so I don't spend more time giving general feedback/ideas.

Also: will this be an OB Cues product, or is it a side project that OBC are cool with, or a partnership? You don't have to answer of course, I'm just curious. Love the entrepreneurial spirit, and I look forward to buying the end product.
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No it wasn’t directed towards anyone in general. I just don’t want the thread to turn into a debate over whether training aids are needed or not. Just FAQ questions as the scope.

Happy to answer. OB Cues is dissolved. They were my licensee at one point but the contract expired. I’ve always maintained full and exclusive ownership of my IP. The branding will depend on new licensing agreements.
 
Will you allow for reverse engineering and open sourcing the code for "repair" or "modifications?
 
nataddrho said:
Questions only please. Not opinions. Thank you.
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OK. Based on your info as far as what it does is the following:

"The purpose of the DigiBall is to provide players/students immediate feedback on the accuracy of their stroke when hitting the cue ball. Accuracy is very important for both pocketing the object ball and imparting the correct spin on the cue ball to travel to the desired position for the next shot. Knowledge of tip position accuracy helps guide the player in choosing where to make fundamental corrections, be it aiming, stroke, alignment, focus, or conceptual."

What it says is it measures the accuracy of the stroke when hitting the cue ball and knowledge of tip position accuracy. How does it differentiate between someone that sets up and plays the game with a parallel shaft/tip for spin vs. an angled or pivoted shaft/tip for spin either preset or dynamically during the stroke? (BHE)

I could be way off base in my understanding of this but I'm under the impression that an angled cue, especially done dynamically would set off air raid sirens on every shot. Yes? No?

So, let's say an error in contact is displayed that is in fact valid and keeps occurring frequently. How is it corrected and what
is the real cause of the mis angled cue/tip contact? Are most players knowledgeable enough to know what the cause is?
Would it jump out immediately to a pro instructor for cause and correction? It could be anything or it could be everything
from stance, body angle, head and eyes position, stroking hand wrist position (concave, convex, straight), grip pressure throughout stroke (tight, relaxed, constant, changing with nerves or speed).

Even the best players don't realize they've ingrained some bad habit that's coming up to bite them in the ass when pressure and nerves start taking over. The real part is, how do you fix it and where is it happening? Cause vs. causation.

Just some random thoughts out of my pea brain.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
I could be way off base in my understanding of this but I'm under the impression that an angled cue, especially done dynamically would set off air raid sirens on every shot. Yes? No?
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No. The DigiBall has no idea what your stroke is doing, or exactly where you are aiming. All it knows is where and how hard on itself it was struck (based on its initial movement), and its own velocity, path, and spin measured over time until it comes to rest. It can probably make a close estimation of cue speed, vector, and intended aim, but from the ball’s perspective, applying sidespin with parallel, BHE, or a swoop stroke are indistinguishable.

If you want cue/stroke data, you need something measuring the cue itself, like the DigiCue Blue released several years ago.

It would be interesting to sync-up ball and cue data with the two products. I’m sure Nathan has considered that. Doing so would provide some interesting data points, such as golf’s Smash Factor (ball speed divided by clubhead speed). A Smash Factor in pool would tell you how efficiently a cue and stroke delivers energy to the cue ball.

There are going to be some really cool/fun metrics coming from the DigiBall itself. I look forward to measuring initial spin rate, and spin rate divided by initial velocity. Those numbers will tell you exactly how efficiently you can put maximum spin on the cue ball. Knowing some pro benchmarks from the likes of Florian or Shaw and trying to match those numbers will be a neat challenge. We’ll also be able to easily test cue/tip/chalk/stroke combinations to discover what works best for us. @dr_dave will have a field day. :)

Side notes for @nataddrho:

1. A cool feature would be a “straight shot practice” mode, in which you would set up straight shots on an object ball, and the DigiBall would report the “% Full” you hit the object ball and any post-collision cueball movement and spin. Getting an aggregate report showing dispersion patterns and left/right direction and spin tendencies over each practice session and over time would be invaluable to improving one’s accuracy. Also useful to measure and report would be the actual deflection and swerve on these shots, since in such a mode it can infer your intended aim. Side-side note: by offering a paired “DigiBall Object Ball” you could report data on makes/misses.

2. It’s common in the golf world for training tools like this to have separate pricing for individual and instructor licenses. Instructor licenses typically allow multiple student logins/sessions so each student can review their own data, and give the instructor an easy way to email a session report to the student with custom branding and notes.
 
DeadStick said:
No. The DigiBall has no idea what your stroke is doing, or exactly where you are aiming. All it knows is where and how hard on itself it was struck (based on its initial movement), and its own velocity, path, and spin measured over time until it comes to rest. It can probably make a close estimation of cue speed, vector, and intended aim, but from the ball’s perspective, applying sidespin with parallel, BHE, or a swoop stroke are indistinguishable.

If you want cue/stroke data, you need something measuring the cue itself, like the DigiCue Blue released several years ago.

It would be interesting to sync-up ball and cue data with the two products. I’m sure Nathan has considered that. Doing so would provide some interesting data points, such as golf’s Smash Factor (ball speed divided by clubhead speed). A Smash Factor in pool would tell you how efficiently a cue and stroke delivers energy to the cue ball.

There are going to be some really cool/fun metrics coming from the DigiBall itself. I look forward to measuring initial spin rate, and spin rate divided by initial velocity. Those numbers will tell you exactly how efficiently you can put maximum spin on the cue ball. Knowing some pro benchmarks from the likes of Florian or Shaw and trying to match those numbers will be a neat challenge. We’ll also be able to easily test cue/tip/chalk/stroke combinations to discover what works best for us. @dr_dave will have a field day. :)

Side notes for @nataddrho:

1. A cool feature would be a “straight shot practice” mode, in which you would set up straight shots on an object ball, and the DigiBall would report the “% Full” you hit the object ball and any post-collision cueball movement and spin. Getting an aggregate report showing dispersion patterns and left/right direction and spin tendencies over each practice session and over time would be invaluable to improving one’s accuracy. Also useful to measure and report would be the actual deflection and swerve on these shots, since in such a mode it can infer your intended aim. Side-side note: by offering a paired “DigiBall Object Ball” you could report data on makes/misses.

2. It’s common in the golf world for training tools like this to have separate pricing for individual and instructor licenses. Instructor licenses typically allow multiple student logins/sessions so each student can review their own data, and give the instructor an easy way to email a session report to the student with custom branding and notes.
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I guess the only question to be answered is "Do I want to spend the money for a patent application, patent search, or a patent attorney to do it to it", and I'm quite sure minds have been made up. Hey, why not? The worst thing that could happen is they don't sell as hoped or expected. But others can be sued for patent infringement if they try infringing on the product.

The real test will be cost of production vs. sales and potential sales. Imo, which doesn't mean diddly squat, pool players are some of the cheapest individuals in any sport when it comes to spending money on equipment but especially paying for game
improvement regarding instruction. A certain % will spend $$$ on higher end cues, tables/books/videos/lessons, but the majority will go on the CHEAP. When it comes to instruction through various products it can be decent from a certain percentage but not the majority. And when it comes to in person lessons from teaching professionals, especially compared to golf, FORGET IT! Hackers to low handicap to pros will spend whatever it takes to improve in some facet of the game with golf.

I don't want to be a negative Nellie, just an opinion and a little bit of experience with patents and products.
 
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