Dimond ball cleaner RPM

PVD16

New member
Just simply pointing out that standing outside of the box giving advice is just moving your lips. When it comes to following through with your own advice is where the breakdown takes place. While you're sitting back giving your advice on something already working, mind you is not an improvement on what has already been designed, built, and in production. I unlike you, don't need to copy the Diamond ball polisher to come up with an new design that supercedes Diamonds current model design as even better, cheaper, and even more efficient. The only question I have to ask myself is do I need to😅
This statement was made if this chain. "You can’t change the rpm of the motor very easily, so don’t try." I just answered you can do it with a VFD. I have never talked about changing your design. In fact I have the balls for my Diamond table clean by a diamond ball cleaner and am quite happy with it. I have also said the cost of such drive would be a factor making it a viable solution.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Just simply pointing out that standing outside of the box giving advice is just moving your lips. When it comes to following through with your own advice is where the breakdown takes place. While you're sitting back giving your advice on something already working, mind you is not an improvement on what has already been designed, built, and in production. I unlike you, don't need to copy the Diamond ball polisher to come up with an new design that supercedes Diamonds current model design as even better, cheaper, and even more efficient. The only question I have to ask myself is do I need to😅
Ok, just a couple of comments. First off, I've made a pretty good living throughout my career spec'ing, installing, programming VFD/motor combos in countless applications. So yes, while I move my lips when I speak. People have seen fit to listen intently and open their wallets while doing so.

I don't have any hands on R&D with the diamond polisher, so whether or not the end result (polished balls 😁 ) can be better had with oscillating spd/direction during the cycle, I cannot say. In my humble, uneducated pool ball polishing opinion, I'd say probably not. Take that what you think it's worth, but don't let the fact that I'm agreeing with you sway your thoughts on my opinion.

I have no dog in the "better polisher" fight. Simply stating that a VFD/motor combo can be driven at the spds you think they can't and be just as reliable as a full nameplate motor geared down.

I said earlier that one of the greatest things about the diamond polisher, is it's simplistic design. Going to a VFD/motor to perform the same task is a needless complication. <--again, my uneducated ball polishing opinion
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Ok, just a couple of comments. First off, I've made a pretty good living throughout my career spec'ing, installing, programming VFD/motor combos in countless applications. So yes, while I move my lips when I speak. People have seen fit to listen intently and open their wallets while doing so.

I don't have any hands on R&D with the diamond polisher, so whether or not the end result (polished balls 😁 ) can be better had with oscillating spd/direction during the cycle, I cannot say. In my humble, uneducated pool ball polishing opinion, I'd say probably not. Take that what you think it's worth, but don't let the fact that I'm agreeing with you sway your thoughts on my opinion.

I have no dog in the "better polisher" fight. Simply stating that a VFD/motor combo can be driven at the spds you think they can't and be just as reliable as a full nameplate motor geared down.

I said earlier that one of the greatest things about the diamond polisher, is it's simplistic design. Going to a VFD/motor to perform the same task is a needless complication. <--again, my uneducated ball polishing opinion
Can any motor be used with a VFD?
Output voltages are available for VFDs to match almost any existing motor voltage. However, very few, if any, VFDs have a direct 13,800-volt output for very high-voltage motors. For these cases, using a step-up transformer on the output of the VFD is often necessary to match the motor voltage.Feb 8, 2017

How a VFD Operates. A variable frequency drive takes in fixed AC voltage and frequency into a rectifier bridge to convert the voltage to DC, uses a capacitor bank and inductors to filter the DC, then inverts the DC voltage back to AC and sends it out to the motor at the frequency desired.Jul 7, 2020

How do you slow down an electric motor with a pulley?
By changing the diameter of the pulley wheels, speed can be changed. A smaller pulley turning a larger pulley results in the larger one moving more slowly but with more shaft power.May 21, 2018
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
The VFD does nothing to handle LOAD capacity on an electric motor.

Read the following again,

How do you slow down an electric motor with a pulley?

By changing the diameter of the pulley wheels, speed can be changed. A smaller pulley turning a larger pulley results in the larger one moving more slowly but with more shaft power.May 21, 2018

This allows for that 1/3rd hp motor to have a final output torque equal to a 1 1/3hp electric motor thereby preventing it from overheating or becoming damaged by way of load resistance.
 

Slasher

KE = 0.5 • m • v2
Silver Member
GH1_wood_gears.gif
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Dang! The Diamond Dual Ball Polisher doesn't look so big now.

I assume the referenced diagram shows the inner workings of a ball polisher from back in the day. Great historical content!
I am pretty sure that the Neanderthals were a big people back in their time. Pool balls were probably akin in size to todays bowling balls. At 16 pounds per that's.............................let me see..........................................16 x 15 or is it 15 x ????............................................hhhhhhhmmmm, that's pretty heavy is what it is.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Dunning Kruger
Think so?

Put together a cost analysis for a VDF system and a 1/3hp Dayton blower motor. Keep in mind you're still going to have to drive the platters with some sort of pulleys.

This is what you're requiring before you even install a motor!

How a VFD Operates.

A variable frequency drive takes in fixed AC voltage and frequency into a rectifier bridge to convert the voltage to DC, uses a capacitor bank and inductors to filter the DC, then inverts the DC voltage back to AC and sends it out to the motor at the frequency desired.Jul 7, 2020
 

slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Think so?

Put together a cost analysis for a VDF system and a 1/3hp Dayton blower motor. Keep in mind you're still going to have to drive the platters with some sort of pulleys.

This is what you're requiring before you even install a motor!

How a VFD Operates.

A variable frequency drive takes in fixed AC voltage and frequency into a rectifier bridge to convert the voltage to DC, uses a capacitor bank and inductors to filter the DC, then inverts the DC voltage back to AC and sends it out to the motor at the frequency desired.Jul 7, 2020
If you have a design like this you don't need no pulleys, belts, bearings, shafts IF you can find a motor that turns around 500 RPM with enough torque and that won't bankrupt you. Plus you can do 16 balls at once.

 

dendweller

Active member
It's all dependent on how often you clean the balls, and how much polish is used...

Naturally, to think that the balls will spin on the same axis every time you run them is just unrealistic. That said, it could take years, for the effect to be noticeable.

Something to note: If the design has no implements which cause an axial shift during a cycle, the amount of wear along that axis will increase over time. Once the balls start to become ellipsoidal, they will have a natural tendency to consistently spin about the major axis, thereby accelerating the wear about the major axis.

It may not be noticeable to the naked eye, though it could be measured, and would certainly be noticeable when racking the balls. This would become most obvious in a poolhall setting, with frequent cleanings.
I've used the buffer in the bucket thing in the past, I've heard that wares balls unevenly too. I took it out and put balls in it with a stripe on the nine ball vertical. It doesn't appear to spin on axis. I'm sure there's a lot of reason this is a poor solution anyway.

Couple things about it, it's an oscillating buffer and the carpet that goes around the edge is put in with clamps at 3 locations so it isn't all that round, it has humps in it. The orbits of the balls seems pretty random although I could be wrong about that.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
If you have a design like this you don't need no pulleys, belts, bearings, shafts IF you can find a motor that turns around 500 RPM with enough torque and that won't bankrupt you. Plus you can do 16 balls at once.

And it don't rotate the balls.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Think so?
Fairly certain yes... guess there is the possibility though. Let me think about it for a moment.
.....I've made a pretty good living throughout my career spec'ing, installing, programming VFD/motor combos in countless applications. So yes, while I move my lips when I speak. People have seen fit to listen intently and open their wallets while doing so.
How a VFD Operates.
Yep, I think so... (y)
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
If you have a design like this you don't need no pulleys, belts, bearings, shafts IF you can find a motor that turns around 500 RPM with enough torque and that won't bankrupt you. Plus you can do 16 balls at once.

And yes, that's belt driven, if you listen to it spinning, you hear that little repeat sound of the belt seam going around the small drive pulley, just listen, you'll hear it.
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The problem is simple don't come cheap, not if it's built to last forever, the 1/2" automotive fan belts will never wear out, neither will the motor, designed as a fan motor, for years of continuous duty usage.

But, simple isn't the same thing as cheap, and that seems to be what some people want, cheap! Only thing is, cheap comes at a price too, called sub-par performance and longevity!

As long as it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, who cares if it can fly like a duck!!!
The saying goes… Buy Once Cry Once
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Problem is, Diamond can't build them fast enough, and two, no Diamond dealer can hang onto them long enough to have a stock inventory, as they sell out as soon as they get them.
I bet I wouldn’t have to wait….😉

It’s great to have friends in the right places🤠

There’s nothing I own, and I own a ton of stuff that’s better bang for the buck than a Diamond ball polisher. For its intended purpose it’s the best. I wished everything I own worked good as that polisher.

Best
Fatboy<———busy polishing his balls….😁
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
And what was your cost estimate?
Without bothering to look, I could do it for under $300 easily, $500 if I wanted to be lazy, $1k if I wanted to be extravagant and add a BlueTooth app to my phone....lol

What does the cost of the equipment have to do with their ability to do the job...?

One more time. I'm not saying it's a better option then what you did. Just that it is indeed an option, and you're misinformed about the VFD/motor limitations.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
There’s nothing I own, and I own a ton of stuff that’s better bang for the buck than a Diamond ball polisher. For its intended purpose it’s the best. I wished everything I own worked good as that polisher.

Best
Fatboy<———busy polishing his balls….😁
I have never heard of anyone who has bought a Diamond polisher complain about it.
 
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