Discriminating against non-drinkers?

A pool hall I play in went through recent ownership change.

The old owner who went out of business due to poor cash flow was making mistakes left and right which guaranteed his failure.
He used to complain daily about people not spending enough money as well.

The new owner is a smart guy who has another successful hall in the city. They run the 2 halls as a family business.

One day an old timer started apologizing to the new owner about not spending any money as he is on a fixed income. He knew the drill because of the old owner.

The new owner told him not to do that and that he was happy he is coming and he should not feel bad about anything.

The halls around are failing left and right but this guy has leagues 4 nights a week in both places fully packed, tournament 2 times a week packed as well, and people love to go there.

You can make a go of it if you know what you doing and you respect your clients.
 
Reward league players

Red Shoes said:
It is a very "slippery slope" once you start to "give" things away (pool table time etc...). When I see poolrooms/bars start offering "specials" like...buy 2 drinks and play for free, or $5 play all day, Tuesdays FREE POOL etc..etc.. It is normally a sign that the business is on it's knees. With "costs" skyrocketing (i.e. rent, insurance, electric, gas, licenses, taxes, taxes and more TAXES etc..) it is very tough to keep a business open in 2012. Remember unlike your average business that passes increased costs on to the consumer, a pool room owner CAN NOT adjust rates every time his operation costs increase. Think about it...Your local pool room did not have 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 rates (for pool table time). If you own a pool room you might be able to increase rates every 4-5 years (and then by only $1 an hour or so). So as much as I think we (as owners) should use our heads with "increases" in prices...It is not anywhere as EASY as it looks. I (as a pool room owner) should provide well maintained and serviced equipment, good food, reasonably priced liquor (if you drink) and a safe, clean and comfortable environment for you to play. YOU (as a customer) should expect service (and discounts) predicated on the amount of MONEY you spend in the place on a weekly (or monthly) basis. Of course there is a standard level of service that all customers receive, but if I'm going to "give away" something...I'm much more likely to give it to a guy that spends $300 a week in the place vs. $11 a week. THAT IS BUSINESS. So when you suggest things like FREE TABLE TIME for league players on Tuesdays. That is NOT a problem "IF" I see you on the other days of the week (as a paying customer). But if I offer that and I only see you on Tuesdays...well whats the point?? I discount my prices depending on how much somebody spends in my place.
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I see free practice time (when there are lots of open tables) as a logical reward for league players. After all, they have agreed to be regular customers, showing up faithfully every league night for an entire season. Free play for league players encourages folks to join leagues. I've seen the results, - pool halls who do it can look forward to leagues four or more nights a week if properly promoted. Isn't this better than relying on players who come in randomly?
I sincerely hope your discount philosophy works for you. Seems like rather than wait to choose among customers to give them a reward, one would rather just get as many customers as possible. Some will be big spenders, some will not....and don't forget that people's situations change. The economy can turn a spender into a spendthrift, but a new job or promotion can turn a tightwad into a spender, too! TREAT EVERYONE THE SAME!
Donny L
 
Most of the Bar & Pool Room owners around here cultivate drunks, not Pool Players.

If there were more inter-bar leagues, that might change that scenario. Everyone likes to have a Champion out of their place.

I'd like to see challenge matches advertised, there's some revenue to be had in doing that. Sweaters spend money too, especially if there are specials going on during the match.

The big games that are being streamed are a perfect venue for having a cluster party.
 
props to high pockets

i play on 4 teams in 3 different leagues. i play in 25 different establishments in the area

they all offer pretty much the same level of service whether you are a big spender or not or a regular customer or not. i speak from experience. i am single and frequented most of these places in my drinking days and was somewhat of a big spender as i owned my own company. they all treated me the same. now i have quit drinking and dont spend as much and still have the same level of service.

a couple of exceptions in 2 bars. i have a few teamates that bring their flasks and order cokes. 1 bar charges you 2.50 for a coke if you mix it, 1.00 for it if you dont. they watch you close to see if you are mixing lol.

another bar charges you 1.50 for a coke and the refills are free, dont matter if you mix or not.

now to my favorite place...HIGH POCKETS !!.

the only place that gives league players free table time. they open the tables at 5:30, they close them at 7:00 for league and open them back up afterwards till closing time at 12:00.

there are several of us that move to a 9' and play golf after playing our matches on bar tables. it gets to be a riot when we get as many as 8 people in our game ! some time we run a lil late finishing a game, they just lock the doors and let us finish, usally a half hour or so.

last night was an exception, we stayed til 2:30 this morning.

the room owners, tracy and kinnard are the friendliest and most accomodating room owners i have ever met.

if you are ever in memphis you gotta stop by.
 
Bar leagues generate league bars....I think they are part of the problem, not a solution. I don't have a problem with them per se, I just don't think they actually help the sport long term.

I mean....beer and amateur leagues are almost synonymous.... Budweiser? Busch League? Really?
 
If the pool hall is empty I turn around and leave. If I have a non paying sweater to talk to I will hang out and bullshit. Maybe a game walks in the door, then I stay and spend 20 to 50 bucks. Warm bodies in the place are well worth the space they take up.
 
showing my grattitude

in my above post i gave some of my experience in places i play.

i want to share more of my experience with high pockets .

i was captain of a monday and tuesday traveling money league team. we played out of a pool hall that closed a few months ago. several of the establishments that we visited in that league asked me to bring my teams to their place when the door closed.

i wanted to take my teams to high pockets but i did not know what tracy would say as there were not any teams in this league playing there. he said sure it was no problem finishing out the session at his place.

i love how the following scenario has been played so many times since then.

after our matches are over i would ask the visiting time if they would like to continue playing some as they were packing up. they would always say no that they were calling it a night. i would say table time is free till closing.

they would say WHAT ? as they started putting their cues back together lol. i would get the tables open while they ordered another bucket of beer and some more food lol.

my small contribution to help the best place in town continue to be the best .

another note: our session is almost over and asked tracy if he would sponser us next session, he said sure. i asked about what name he would like for our team as it is currently linked to the old place of bussiness. he said it did not matter as long as it had something in it attributed to the old place as a tribute to the old man that owned it.

what a class act tracy is.

sorry for such a long winded post. sometimes they get glossed over but just wanted to express my appreciation for a great place to play at.
 
Chopdoc said:
Bar leagues generate league bars....I think they are part of the problem, not a solution. I don't have a problem with them per se, I just don't think they actually help the sport long term.

I mean....beer and amateur leagues are almost synonymous.... Budweiser? Busch League? Really?
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you telling me they dont sell alcohol at sbe, turning stone, etc, etc ?

never seen a drunk pro player ?

i can honestly say in my 16 months of playing apa that i have only encountered 1 drunk.

after the 2nd week he got drunk his captain kicked him off that team and he has not been seen since.
 
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lorider said:
you telling me they dont sell alcohol at sbe, turning stone, etc, etc ?

never seen a drunk pro player ?

i can honestly say in my 16 months of playing apa that i have only encountered 1 drunk.

after the 2nd week he got drunk his captain kicked him off that team and he has not been seen since.
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I am not saying anything of the sort, didn't comment about such things at all.

I am only saying that the relationship with alcohol is deeply entrenched, so deeply that it is in the common vernacular as in "Busch League". Granted sponsors of leagues have done a lot but that relationship is not the best for the sport long term IMHO. The evidence is the decline of the sport.

I talked to somebody recently who teaches pool to kids on weekends. I want to get involved. I think that's important. Olympic inclusion is important. I'm not saying to divorce the sport from long time sponsors of amateur leagues, but more needs to be done on a larger stage that has nothing to do with bars or beer.
 
Agree, mostly...

Chopdoc said:
Bar leagues generate league bars....I think they are part of the problem, not a solution. I don't have a problem with them per se, I just don't think they actually help the sport long term.

I mean....beer and amateur leagues are almost synonymous.... Budweiser? Busch League? Really?
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I agree. On the other hand, don't forget that when "The Hustler" came out (and has been given deserved credit for pool's resurgence in the '60s), it was also when the bar box appeared. (Remember the first table seen in the movie?) Being an old fart myself, I know that most living Americans were introduced to pool on a bar box. Many had no easy access to 9" tables. There was an explosion of pool leagues beginning in the late '60s, thanks to bar boxes. They're an important part of American pool history.
I don't think I'm unique in saying I enjoy playing on most ANY size table if it's in decent condition.
Good point about the beer leagues. It was the Bud Light League and the Busch League before it became the APA. But other organizations have not always had such corporate origins. I played league pool for over a decade before Larry and Terry came up with their idea for a system. I never really thought of pool leagues as synonymous with beer until the Budweiser leagues. VNEA was associated with Valley tables. BCA was associated with professional tournament history. Bar tables appeared in bars because people asked for them, and they were very profitable for the space required. It would not have been feasible back then to open a pool hall with bar boxes and no alcohol, - although since then I have seen successful pool establishments that don't serve alcohol, - and don't allow smoking either. Granted, not a lot of them, but statistics do show that fewer people per capita drink and smoke than even twenty years ago. Bar boxes made a ton of money for many folks over the years. They're perfect for a venue that doesn't have room for 9-footers.
 
As far as "treating everyone the same", I do. As I stated in my post "of course there is a standard level of service that all customers receive"....that standard is a "high standard". My point was that "donating" table time (on non-league days) to league players becomes "sister kissing". It may look good to an "outsider" but it is pointless. Pool players in general throw "nickles around like sewer covers" (they are cheap...good economy or bad). If I charged $.50 cents an hour, there would be a percentage of people that think it is TOO MUCH. At my room I "donate" the bar tables to the leagues on league night. If a "league" player wants a 9 footer to play on, standard pool table time rates apply. During tournaments (which are frequent) there is free practice time before and DURING the tournament. Once a player has been eliminated and wants to play...he is on the clock (pays time). My point was that just because you play in a pool league out of an establishment, you should not expect to get free table time 7 days a week. There is a difference between a "bar with pool tables" and what I have which is...a "pool room with a bar".
 
More money is made off of fountain soda drinkers than anything in the bar.
Bottle water is also alittle more profitable than bottle beer. When selling beer there is alot more taxes involved, in most places
 
JumpinJoe said:
More money is made off of fountain soda drinkers than anything in the bar.
Bottle water is also alittle more profitable than bottle beer. When selling beer there is alot more taxes involved, in most places
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Perhaps very true. But all I can tell you is that drinking one coke or one water doesn't often make we want to have another right away.... And another after that. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It's also not as much a social thing as "getting together with some friends for a few beers".
I don't recall the last time a friend asked me if I wanted to out for a few cokes....
 
My best friend has some of the most successful rooms in the country and the business is food and drink. At his largest location he has 20 pool tables and the pool accounts for 12 per cent of his business.The rest is split between food, beer and liquor.
 
Donny Lutz said:
I agree. On the other hand, don't forget that when "The Hustler" came out (and has been given deserved credit for pool's resurgence in the '60s), it was also when the bar box appeared. (Remember the first table seen in the movie?) Being an old fart myself, I know that most living Americans were introduced to pool on a bar box. Many had no easy access to 9" tables. There was an explosion of pool leagues beginning in the late '60s, thanks to bar boxes. They're an important part of American pool history.
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When I first played pool in 1965 - 1966 in Miami, Florida there were plenty of 9' tables around. There were six different pool halls in a six mile radius to choose from, and more in a bigger radius, that had nothing but nine-footers. One had a 10' snooker table. I didn't know bar boxes existed but I didn't go in bars, either.
 
spktur said:
My best friend has some of the most successful rooms in the country and the business is food and drink. At his largest location he has 20 pool tables and the pool accounts for 12 per cent of his business.The rest is split between food, beer and liquor.
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Great Post! I bet that the pool players do add to the bar, food and soda sales while they are there as well. Which is all part of the profit, it sure is hard to make a buck on an empty business. The table time is never where the profits come from but the more people playing as opposed to not is where the money is made. Which makes me wonder why some of the pool halls let their pool tables go to crap and never do any upkeep on them. A great example of a succesfull room is The Brass Tap in Raleigh NC. Tony Coates is the owner and he religously recovers his tables and has a loyal following at his room. I believe he has been there over 25 years so he must be doing something right and the unsuccessful places should be paying close attention to what he's been doing..
 
I can attest to stupid policies killing business.

There was a regular tournament that I frequented in Denver. And in those days I drank quite a bit while playing but still did pretty good. This particular place had a Friday night tournament and my normal bar tab was 60-80 and add another 20-30 for tips etc...

I would usually eat dinner there etc...

They also had free pool (open bar tables) from 2-5 so sometimes I would stop in early on tournament day, hit a few balls and then go home and come back for the tournament. I had no trouble buying a soda or bottle of water then and normally would...but I don't ever drink alcohol until later in the day. Just my thing.

So I stopped in there one day and started hitting balls. The bartender came over. I smiled at him when he came over thinking he was going to ask me if I wanted a drink. Instead he just threw down the balls and locked the table. I asked him why he did that and he said "You gotta be drinking." I followed him up to the bar and said "I'm coming back tonight to play the tournament." He said, "You gotta be drinking now."

I said "I was going to order a diet coke, it's too early for me to have a beer." He just said "you didn't" and turned his back and walked away.

Anyway, there were only about three people in there. Not like they needed the table for some drinkers. So I left. And I never, ever went back. Ever.

I drove by there last time I was in Denver and they were closed. Go figure.

~rc
 
Quesports said:
Great Post! I bet that the pool players do add to the bar, food and soda sales while they are there as well. Which is all part of the profit, it sure is hard to make a buck on an empty business. The table time is never where the profits come from but the more people playing as opposed to not is where the money is made. Which makes me wonder why some of the pool halls let their pool tables go to crap and never do any upkeep on them. A great example of a succesfull room is The Brass Tap in Raleigh NC. Tony Coates is the owner and he religously recovers his tables and has a loyal following at his room. I believe he has been there over 25 years so he must be doing something right and the unsuccessful places should be paying close attention to what he's been doing..
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Definitely, they have leagues four nights a week with from 8 to 16 teams playing. Pool is the draw to the place. Everyone eating ,drinking and playing a little friendly pool.
 
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