Do any modern players slip stroke or stroke slip? YES!

[Straightpool_99]

You want to let the weight of the cue do the work, whatever works best for you to do that, do it.

Yes. There are basically two schools of thought on the grip as pertains to the stroke. The orthodox thing is to close the fingers around the cue as the stroke finishes or keep them more or less in contact throughout. The idea is to control the cue by having contact with it as fully as possible. I've done that, even death gripped the cue for a long time. It has benefits, too, but it's tough to get the same cue power. It really takes a lot more work. It also makes moving the ball a little bit of a "chore" sometimes.

The other is to keep the grip loose and even let the cue slip like Chua does. You can get a lot of the benefits of this technique without letting the cue actually slip. Keep the grip loose and the wrist flexible. The arm works as a whip and snapping the wrist for a perfectly timed stroke at cueball impact will give you so much power it's insane. There is no "hard" snap, just a smooth whipping motion that propels the cue forward at maximum velocity at the point it strikes the cueball. There is a lot of "hokum" on the internet about cue timing, especially snooker guys confuse people and muddy the waters. Timing is what I described, the maximum accelleration of the cue at the exact right time, which is achieved most easily as I described. Loose grip throughout, flexible wrist and whip it! The idea is that the cue will go in a straight line by itself, if you don't interfere, as per Newton. The slip is just taking it one step further. Keeping the mental focus on the cue moving straight and accellerating and forgetting about the arm is the key to help perfect the speed and straightness.

You pretend you are throwing the cue straight and just barely keep contact with the cue. Trust me when I say it will change your view of the game, of cues, everything if you've never tried it before. Finally you can shoot the shots as hard as you'd possibly want, with precision. There is more to the game, obviously, but it really makes the game different, having that power on tap. I mentioned in a previous thread about the balance. I think the best weight distribution in a cue for this kind of stroke is having some weight ahead of the grip hand, in the forearm region of the cue, ie forward weighted. It's not quite as easy with a completely neutrally balanced cue and very rear weighted cue isn't ideal. It can still be done, but with the right weight distribution, the cue just seems to "want" to go straight and fast. Yeah, I'm sounding like one of those snooker guys now...But it's true.

 

[straightline]

Ko explains that the value of the release is the stroke goes through the ball without the distortion of manual input. ie. the optimal intersection of velocity and accuracy.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Ko explains that the value of the release is the stroke goes through the ball without the distortion of manual input. ie. the optimal intersection of velocity and accuracy.

That is spot on. The one issue I run into is when flicking the wrist is the position of the fingers the cue is resting on, occasionally they will be too high or low which changes the orientation of the butt which can impart a fraction of an inch of too much draw/follow which can make the CB move a bit more than wanted/expected.

 

[straightline]

That is spot on. The one issue I run into is when flicking the wrist is the position of the fingers the cue is resting on, occasionally they will be too high or low which changes the orientation of the butt which can impart a fraction of an inch of too much draw/follow which can make the CB move a bit more than wanted/expected.

True. The two finger grip I use still has significant (referenced to zero) error. Small steps for me.

 

[Jaden]

Yes. There are basically two schools of thought on the grip as pertains to the stroke. The orthodox thing is to close the fingers around the cue as the stroke finishes or keep them more or less in contact throughout. The idea is to control the cue by having contact with it as fully as possible. I've done that, even death gripped the cue for a long time. It has benefits, too, but it's tough to get the same cue power. It really takes a lot more work. It also makes moving the ball a little bit of a "chore" sometimes.

The other is to keep the grip loose and even let the cue slip like Chua does. You can get a lot of the benefits of this technique without letting the cue actually slip. Keep the grip loose and the wrist flexible. The arm works as a whip and snapping the wrist for a perfectly timed stroke at cueball impact will give you so much power it's insane. There is no "hard" snap, just a smooth whipping motion that propels the cue forward at maximum velocity at the point it strikes the cueball. There is a lot of "hokum" on the internet about cue timing, especially snooker guys confuse people and muddy the waters. Timing is what I described, the maximum accelleration of the cue at the exact right time, which is achieved most easily as I described. Loose grip throughout, flexible wrist and whip it! The idea is that the cue will go in a straight line by itself, if you don't interfere, as per Newton. The slip is just taking it one step further. Keeping the mental focus on the cue moving straight and accellerating and forgetting about the arm is the key to help perfect the speed and straightness.

You pretend you are throwing the cue straight and just barely keep contact with the cue. Trust me when I say it will change your view of the game, of cues, everything if you've never tried it before. Finally you can shoot the shots as hard as you'd possibly want, with precision. There is more to the game, obviously, but it really makes the game different, having that power on tap. I mentioned in a previous thread about the balance. I think the best weight distribution in a cue for this kind of stroke is having some weight ahead of the grip hand, in the forearm region of the cue, ie forward weighted. It's not quite as easy with a completely neutrally balanced cue and very rear weighted cue isn't ideal. It can still be done, but with the right weight distribution, the cue just seems to "want" to go straight and fast. Yeah, I'm sounding like one of those snooker guys now...But it's true.

I even developed something I call "The Perfect Grip" which is a form fitting device that fits in your first two fingers and thumb and pressure fits around the butt of the cue with foam inserts. It allows you to grip tightly while still having a loose hold on the cue, due to the foam inserts.

It's surprising how well it works. The reason I developed it was because while letting the cue do the work removes some stroke flaws and allows for better control of the cue, in pressure situations, there can be a tendency to tighten up. The Perfect Grip helps to prevent stroke mechanic errors from creeping in due to that tightening up in pressure situations.

Still working out some design kinks though.

Jaden

 

[Straightpool_99]

If you want to try the stroke slip, but can't, try the following: Wrap your fingers around the cue very loosely. Let the entire weight of the cue rest on the middle and ring fingers of your cueing hand. The ring finger is what is going to give your cue speed. The index and thumb just form a tunnel for the cue to pass through but are in contact just slightly. Pull your hand back cocking the wrist backwards as you do. At all times the cue is resting on the middle and ring finger. I take my little finger completely off the cue in the back swing to allow maximum wrist flex. As you stroke forward you whip your wrist, with the cue resting on the middle and ring finger. There is a slight squeezing motion of the ring finger that times with the snap of the wrist, but the other fingers remain loose. You can put the little finger back around on completion if you want. If you squeeze the ring finger too far shut, the cue can't slide, so you must limit the squeeze a bit, compared to a normal stroke. You'll feel the cue propell through your hand, like magic. And if the cue doesn't slide, again, you still get about 90% of the benefits this way, in my estimation. You must experiment with your front fingers (index/thumb), and you may have to open or at least relax them to allow the cue to slide, depending on how slick the cue is. They should be relaxed throughout the stroke, really. You should be able to slip almost any cue with the right technique, unless it's a very sticky laquer cue , in which case you'll need some talc. However, I'm only talking about the stroke slip and not the slip stroke, which I find more demanding. I haven't tried with one of those rubber gripped ones, but I suspect that might be challenging or maybe impossible.

The ring finger is what gives the cue power. If you lack power in your stroke, this is where the focus should be put in your grip work, slip or no slip. You could maybe get a fraction more power with not slipping the cue, BUT if you mistime the stroke, line up too far away or too close, the cue can dip, causing a miscue on draw shots. The slip or near slip tends to remove this tendency and lets the cue go straight, without dipping.


You can do the slip using a grip with just your index and thumb around the cue or resting the cue on your middle finger with the thumb and index as a guide. It may be easier to make the cue actually slide using only the index and thumb. The key is having one main finger that your cue rests on. HOWEVER, you'll be missing out on the power given by the squeeze. and the control the extra fingers give you. I'd be wary of recommending a grip like that, but I'm sure it could be made to work.

Another vital key, IMO, to controlling a stroke like this is to have the proper stance, with enough weight forward. If you raise your bridgehand off the table, you should feel like your slightly falling forwards. This will help you be steady throughout the power strokes and let the cue go straight forward instead of flying up or dipping down.