Do Pros Actually Use the Predator Z2 Shaft in Competition?
- Thread starter shankster8
- Start date
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maybe if he went to a 314 he might be known as a full court player instead of half court 14-1
hitting 100 balls same shot with z2 314 and Dominiak
I found the same results as this earlier post,
I liked all of them somewhat. Finding the Z shaft the hardest to play with only due to the extra concentration needed for aiming. However, the shaft I get the most response, feel and overall performance is without a doubt the Dominiak D2.
IMHO the Z2 is not the best cue for the average player , but the thread was on pro level. so the answer is yes there are plenty of pro's that play with that shaft
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I am with you, Jim. I just can't get enough of my Z. Less deflection, whats not to like? The only thing I dont like about it, is that it doesnt jump well. Not sure what pros use them, but I know Robles uses a 314-2.
Ok see, this is smart (because this guy gave a real testing period, not a week)...all these posts on here about people that played with a regular shaft for 10 years and then decided to try a Predator for a week and hated it...that isn't enough time to learn the difference. When you then go on a public forum and say you hated it, sadly there are many who don't know enough about low deflection shafts, don't realize there is a considerable adjustment period, and will come away with a false sense that the shaft isn't that great.
You know, a lot of people try to quit smoking, but don't like the way that feels after a week without a cigarette. So they conclude "well, not smoking is not for me" and light one up again. After a year, however, they would realize what it means to not smoke, and perhaps only then fully appreciate the difference. I'm not saying it takes a year to convert to a Predator, but it definitely takes more than a week. And I would think all the longer the longer and more you have played with a regular shaft.
Finally, on the issue of the 314-2 vs the Z2...I have to say if you are having problems with the Z2 that you are not having with the 314-2 due to "overdoing" it, your stroke has a long way to go. I have played with a 314-2 for a while now. My friend has an awesome Mike Webb with a Z2 on it. I can pick up her cue and shoot just fine. If anything, I can do some extraordinary things with the cueball with her cue that I can't do so easily with mine. Other than that, not really a huge difference. Don't forget, spin (whether top, bottom, side) ought to come from your stroke. As such, you don't need to go a mile off center, particularly with side spin, to get the results you need. The practice drill I gave her to help with this concept is this: set up a ball straight into the side pocket about 1 foot away. Set up the cue ball about a foot away from that, straight in. Practice drawing the ball back about 6 inches, or following about 6 inches, but you have to FIRE the ball in. When you rifle the shot in, and your tip is anywhere but *exactly* where it needs to be, you are going to get a TON of follow and draw. This will show up as a failure in this drill. Learn to strike the cue ball where you need to. Not *near* where you need to, but exactly where. There are few skills more valuable in pool. Once you learn to do this, the difference between the Z2 and the 314-2 becomes more about the feel of the different tapers, and yes definitely less deflection on the Z2, NOT about which one makes you overdo your shot.
Hope this helps,
KMRUNOUT
Jon,
My data contradicts your assumptions here. First of all, no one is saying that *all* low deflection shafts are unforgiving. Actually quite the opposite. When you *intend* to hit center ball (from left to right) and fail to do so, a low deflection shaft is FAR MORE forgiving. That is just a fact of physics. If someone believes that a low deflection shaft somehow produces "more" spin, I would argue that this is because they have the confidence to hit the cueball farther away from center, not because of some magical property of the shaft. The "less forgiving" concept comes when comparing the 314-2 and the Z2. The reason there is a difference here is smaller tip size, plain and simple. When the force of the hit is distributed over a smaller area, it means that a greater percentage of that force is acting at the exact center of where the tip hits the cueball. A wider tip will expend some of its force at a point closer to the center of the ball, whereas a smaller tip won't. Thus a fatter tip seems to slightly reduce the net spin vs a small tip. When you couple this with the ability to feel accurate hitting WAY off center, I think this is why people feel the Z2 can get them into trouble. However, my suspicion is that if you turned a 314-2 shaft down to 11.75mm, you would experience the exact same effect. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that a 314-2 turned down to 11.75mm deflects the same amount as a Z2...would make a good experiment.
As for BHE, I actually learned how to do that long after changing to a 314-2. IT works just fine for me...actually I am astonished how well it works.
Thought you might like to know,
KMRUNOUT
There are many ways to create tests that will help the player decide if the Z2 (or any other shaft) is a better tool. The name of the game is accuracy and cue ball control. It is not about what I like or don’t like it is about finding the best tool and I will learn to like it if it produces the results I am seeking.
In my own studies the results were so obvious that it was a no brainer to decide to use the Z2. It produces less deflection. It requires more (better) concentration. It requires less cue ball offset to obtain the same amount of English.
Based on these personal findings and my own requirements for the “best” tool I can find, it is my problem to learn to use the tool to get to my best game.
The discussion about how many pros use a Z2 is interesting because I have found it to be the best tool for me and if several, many(?) pros have found the same thing, that reinforces the notion that I am in the ball park with my personal tests.
If none of the pros have found it to be useful perhaps I have made some sort of mistake in my own tests and or need to look at some other equipment.
Devise your own tests that will let you determine what works best for you. Let the results of your tests guide your decision.
In my own studies the results were so obvious that it was a no brainer to decide to use the Z2. It produces less deflection. It requires more (better) concentration. It requires less cue ball offset to obtain the same amount of English.
Based on these personal findings and my own requirements for the “best” tool I can find, it is my problem to learn to use the tool to get to my best game.
The discussion about how many pros use a Z2 is interesting because I have found it to be the best tool for me and if several, many(?) pros have found the same thing, that reinforces the notion that I am in the ball park with my personal tests.
If none of the pros have found it to be useful perhaps I have made some sort of mistake in my own tests and or need to look at some other equipment.
Devise your own tests that will let you determine what works best for you. Let the results of your tests guide your decision.
I agree 100% that the z takes more concentration to hit, for that reason is why the shaft can do more harm than good except for very high level of players,
I liken it to a forged golf club and a high spin ball , in the hands of a PGA pro it offers the best chance for a low score, but in the hands of a 10 handicap it can be disastrous, put a low spin ball and a cast club with a bigger sweet spot and they play much better because it is more forgiving
onestroke
Corey Deuel also uses a Z2 in competition.
when i talked to massey he was using a z2 with an emerald tip. doesnt oscar d use one? or used to?
Persistant1
New member
I have used the 314 2 for years and I switched to z2 shaft roughly 6-8 months ago. The question for this thread was, "Do any pro's use z2 shaft in real competition". The answer is yes. Mike Davis does as someone else noted. The guy might not have a conventional stroke but I've played with him a few times and when hes confident he can make some sick shots. I've also shot with his z2 and it makes my z2 feel like a normal shaft. His is probably sanded down to about 10.75mm. Whats so good about the z2 shaft though is its got a solid hit. Its not flimsy like the 314 is. Theres nothing worst than a shaft that doesn't have any stability. I'd rather have a little deflection than a shaft that gives too much. Which is why I would take the z2 shaft any day over the 314. Mines sanded down to a pro taper vs the euro taper but still the same 11.75mm. I have about a 12-14" pro taper. Also Corey Deuel in the past has shot with the z2 shaft in competition. Though I think lately hes been shooting with his regular jacoby shaft. I'll admit the z2 shaft makes longer straight shots a little more difficult but what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. I sometimes feel more confident knowing where I'm aiming on the cue ball. The only way to obtain precision is to be precise which z2 allows 10 fold. What may hurt you in the beginning might make you better in the end. Fine tune is the name of this game.
Stephan Cohen, last year's world straight pool champ is also using it.
I know people say that 12.75mm 314-2 has more contact area than the 11.75mm Z-2, which is supposed to make it slightly more forgiving, but...is it really true or is it only in the minds of players? The actual contact area is far smaller than 13, 12.75 or 11.75mm, it's more likely to be in a 2 or 3 mm range.
However, in real life plenty of players have trouble shooting with slightly smaller than regular dimension shafts, even real good players sometimes. Why is that? My own theory is that many will find smaller shafts slightly visually distracting and they will sub consciously slightly steer the cue (more than usual) causing unwanted side spin, etc. The problem might be far more pronounced if they have questionable stroke quality to begin with.
You could reverse the logic. Let's assume some company puts out a 15mm cue saying that you will pot more balls because you'll put less unwanted side spin no matter how crooked your stroke may be. Would that make players play any better? I seriously doubt it.
I know people say that 12.75mm 314-2 has more contact area than the 11.75mm Z-2, which is supposed to make it slightly more forgiving, but...is it really true or is it only in the minds of players? The actual contact area is far smaller than 13, 12.75 or 11.75mm, it's more likely to be in a 2 or 3 mm range.
However, in real life plenty of players have trouble shooting with slightly smaller than regular dimension shafts, even real good players sometimes. Why is that? My own theory is that many will find smaller shafts slightly visually distracting and they will sub consciously slightly steer the cue (more than usual) causing unwanted side spin, etc. The problem might be far more pronounced if they have questionable stroke quality to begin with.
You could reverse the logic. Let's assume some company puts out a 15mm cue saying that you will pot more balls because you'll put less unwanted side spin no matter how crooked your stroke may be. Would that make players play any better? I seriously doubt it.
bang on comment. it's what you're used to, however it's fairly common for people to say that the don't get as much feel with a predator as they do with some customs, as far as i'm concerned, feel is much more important than deflection to a point. being able to control cueball position requires touch and feel, not a cue that is ultra low deflection. the only time i wish i played with a predator is when you get those 911 shots that you can't play safe on, but that's .01 percent of the time.