Do these rules seem confusing to anyone ?

[7stud]

as the base of that object ball clearly is in the kitchen which makes it ineligible, unless you went across the line hit something else, ball, rail, something, and then hit that ball.

What they are saying is that there is no requirement to strike the cue ball so that:

1) the cue ball crosses the head string

AND

2) The cue ball hits something on the other side of the head string before striking an object ball in the kitchen

They are saying that the rule is merely:

1) the cue ball crosses the head string before striking an object ball in the kitchen

 

[DDiabolico]

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. I was 100% sure that the cueball has to be played past the head string, hit something (ball, long rail, short rail) and just then it's legal for the cueball to hit a ball behind the head string.

The only time I thought that such a shot would come into play was if a ball was hanging in one of the pockets and I had to play to the side cushion with spin to get back into the kitchen and make the ball.
The example with cutting a ball back into a corner without hitting a rail prior to contact was VERY confusing to me.

 

[u12armresl]

The rule has always been that the ball "is" where it touches the cloth (at its ½ way point).
So, a ball in the string is playable, a ball ¼mm behind the string is not.

Now, BIH behind the string is completely confusing--because that is called Ball-in-Kitchen not Ball-in-Hand.

Oh, and BTW, if CB leaves the kitchen and then returns to the kitchen*, any ball in Kitchen is playable.
(*) Massé, kicks, spin,...

I like the CB leaves the kitchen part.
Made a video awhile back about it.

 

[Gatz]

Holy shit, I can't believe I read all of this. I'm actually confused now

 

[MitchAlsup]

I like the CB leaves the kitchen part.
Made a video awhile back about it.

I do similarly, but I would have shot the 7 from the other direction and I would not need to jack up on the cue, lots of sidespin, just a little draw. The draw is present so when the CB touches the rail outside of the kitchen it has more friction on the rail and the spin takes more. My way you don't bring the second rail into play.

I often have the <uninitiated> opponent watch to verify the CB did leave the kitchen (to eliminate any doubt on the legality of the shot.) And I explain to them where the CB is supposed to hit the rail and what is considered "where" the CB is at.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

I should have said , after break scratch ball behind the line then the ob setting exactly on the line ( half because the ball will Only set on the exact center) that the WPA rules state that if the ball is setting on the line it is playable... Rule # 1.5 ... THEN in rule 6.11 says that if the ball is setting on the line that if 1/2 half or better is behind the line that the ball is not playable. CONTRADICTION ?

No. The line is neutral. Hope that makes more sense now. That ball exactly centered on the line is playable because less than half is behind the line. Or you could say the halfway point of OB is on the line not behind it. The wording is fine.

 

[Guy Manges]

No. The line is neutral. Hope that makes more sense now. That ball exactly centered on the line is playable because less than half is behind the line. Or you could say the halfway point of OB is on the line not behind it. The wording is fine.

Want a ball balance on a pin head ? Yes the line should be neutral, If the ball is centered on the line how could it be anything but half behind the line... All over this country there are people that say that if the ball is centered on the line that the ball is NOT playable because HALF or Better of the ball is Behind the line... Nevermind life goes on thankgoodness... Guy

 

[Renegade_56]

It occurs to me that the confusion may very well be because they try to describe a legal object ball to begin with. If the rule covers a legal shot with the cue ball, must cross the headstring before contacting a ball, then the object ball position is completely irrelevent. At a glance the example someone posted about shooting just barely accross the line then back cutting a ball into a corner in the kitchen seems illegal, just because the object ball is based in the kitchen, but when you insure legal cue ball motion I can't see anything that keeps you from shooting any ball anywhere. They should not even mention object ball position, for clarity.

 

[hang-the-9]

Back in the fifties I was taught that the break box was the kitchen... In my seventy five plus years of playing I'm sure many wordings have changed... I thank God that I'm still conscious... I know one thing from now on everything behind the head string line is called the kitchen... I thank goodness we still have cues, tables and balls... Guy

Back in the fifties they probably did not have any difference between the kitchen and where you can break from. There have been many different changes to breaking though, and tournaments can limit where you can break from, that area is called the break box. While a break box has to be behind the second diamond area, it can be smaller than that full area, while the kitchen is always the whole area behind the second diamond. Some rules you can only break from the sides even, not from the center.

 

[hang-the-9]

Want a ball balance on a pin head ? Yes the line should be neutral, If the ball is centered on the line how could it be anything but half behind the line... All over this country there are people that say that if the ball is centered on the line that the ball is NOT playable because HALF or Better of the ball is Behind the line... Nevermind life goes on thankgoodness... Guy

But that means that half the ball IS over the line, why is one half more important that the other half. A ball has to be "behind" the line to be behind the line. ON the line is OK in pool.

One thing about counting the ball as in the kitchen with the base vs "most of it" or "all of it". We are talking about position of the cueball on the surface. So lets simply move that ball to a pocket area, To fall into the pocket the ball center has to go just over the edge of the lip to fall in. If only 1/3 of it is over the hole, we don't count it as in do we? So that means if the ball is anywhere else on the table, just having a majority of the ball in an area does not make that the position of the ball but rather where the base of the ball touching the table is that marks the actual position of it. Otherwise whenever the edge of the ball would be over the pocket opening it can be said that the ball is in the pocket since we are saying the position of the ball is the edge of the ball not the center of it.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Want a ball balance on a pin head ? Yes the line should be neutral, If the ball is centered on the line how could it be anything but half behind the line... All over this country there are people that say that if the ball is centered on the line that the ball is NOT playable because HALF or Better of the ball is Behind the line... Nevermind life goes on thankgoodness... Guy

Haha. Technically if the OB is “on the line” as worded in rules. It is neither half across nor half behind. It’s 49.999999999% behind and 49.99999999% across. Add as many 9’s as you want. You are right though. In the real world that don’t fly! It is 8 ball so you usually have more than one option anyway.