Do you bend your knees or your back?

F

Fastolfe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello all,

I'm 6' tall and when I get my chin down on the cue for long shots, I tend to lower my entire body by bending the knees. If I don't do that, I get lower back pains after 2 or 3 hours of playing. What's more, I've always thought it was better for positioning on various tables that may have different height, since the arms and head are always positioned the same way with respect to the playing surface (in other words, the knees make up the height difference and the address stays constant). However, if I strike hard in that position, my shooting hand tends to ram my ribs and it's not really comfortable.

So which is better? bent at the back or bent at the knees? Is there a position that's better than the other for accuracy/consistency, or is it just a matter of personal preference and making the best of one's morphology?
 
Fastolfe said:
Hello all,

I'm 6' tall and when I get my chin down on the cue for long shots, I tend to lower my entire body by bending the knees. If I don't do that, I get lower back pains after 2 or 3 hours of playing. What's more, I've always thought it was better for positioning on various tables that may have different height, since the arms and head are always positioned the same way with respect to the playing surface (in other words, the knees make up the height difference and the address stays constant). However, if I strike hard in that position, my shooting hand tends to ram my ribs and it's not really comfortable.

So which is better? bent at the back or bent at the knees? Is there a position that's better than the other for accuracy/consistency, or is it just a matter of personal preference and making the best of one's morphology?
Click to expand...

you hit the nail on the head, everyone is differient just remember to have a comfortable and repeatable stance, that helps you to deliver the cue to where you want it to go.

Besides bending the knees, you can also widen the stance which will bring down your center of gravity and reduce the bend of the back, and the neck...which helps stay those achy muscles. My self I always preferred taking that little back step to get down lower as opposed to bending both knees more, as I like to lock my rear leg in place as I like the stability it gives me, and have some bend in the front. But its whatever you feel find is the best for you, just try things out.

Thats what its all about, finding whats "YOUR" stance...but remember that changing your game takes time, its not going to fix all problems overnight...new improvments do not show fruition until you have praticed it enough so that it becomes a natural additional element to your own unique style of play.

Grey Ghost
 
greyghost said:
you hit the nail on the head, everyone is differient just remember to have a comfortable and repeatable stance, that helps you to deliver the cue to where you want it to go.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought too, but seeing my friends who aren't much shorter than I am play with their back straight as arrows, I wondered. I don't know how they manage to keep it up without getting back problems. One of the guys in the club also has the weirdest position I've ever seen: he's very tall and skinny, and he approaches the table normally, albeit much closer than I would, then he shift all his weight on his rear leg and curls himself into a question-mark shape to play. He almost looks like a ninja doing a tiger attack or something, very strange. But he plays good, so to each his own I suppose.

greyghost said:
Besides bending the knees, you can also widen the stance which will bring down your center of gravity and reduce the bend of the back, and the neck...
Click to expand...

That's what I do: I stand with legs wide apart and bend my legs. I've been told I almost look like I'm about to squat down to take a dump when I get into position... Not very dignified to be sure, but it works for me.

greyghost said:
but remember that changing your game takes time, its not going to fix all problems overnight...
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm not changing anything. I did some corrective work on my shooting arm some weeks ago and now I'm all good. I was just curious about the knee bending thing. I must say, playing with straight legs and back really looks sharp and professional, not like my constipated hunchback stance, but I just can't do it for very long.
 
If you have limitations in bending (as I do), the best thing you can do is raise your home table so that the playing surface is at about 34". This helps tremendously.

In pool halls, most tables are at around 29", which is fine if you are 5' tall. Occasionally, a 30 or 31" can be found, and you should grab a higher table if you can.

The techniques above are good ones. Since bending the knees a lot tends to destabilize the stance, sometimes putting more of your weight on the bridge hand helps.

But, I have to admit that taking my game to the low tables at pool halls is a real problem. And uncomfortable.
 
Over time, bending at the back will take a physical toll. I agree that spreading your stance is a far better way to get down on a shot.

Steve
 
A home table... Hmm that'd be good, if only I could convince my significant other to let me have one at home instead of spending thousands on fuel to drive down to my favorite pools halls and pay the owners of the premises by the hour for the privilege of playing :)

At any rate, I want to be used to play comfortably on any table. That's why I alternate between playing at the pool hall by my place, which has high 9 ft Gabriels tables with crappy felt and pockets like buckets, and a place 30 miles away which has crisp, well maintained, low 8 ft Dynamic tables with narrow pockets. Playing on different tables regularly really does seem to help my game a lot. I'm not sure I'd get that if I mostly played on my own very high, comfy, spotlessly maintained table that I'd get to know like the back of my hand: I'd be more likely to lose against someone who's used to playing on table that is foreign to me.

As for being unstable on bent knees, I don't seem to have that problem. Maybe years of IPSC shooting taught me to keep very still in uncomfortable positions.

Speaking of that, I developed a mental technique to keep still and have a good stroke at the same time that you may find interesting. I call it my "kebab" technique: when I'm about to shoot, I imagine that my cue is a kebab rod, that there is a fly on the point of the object ball I'm aiming at, that the cueball is a round piece of hard marshmallow, and that I want to spear the cueball and the fly onto my kebab rod to make a marshmallow-and-fly kebab. If I move or breathe too hard before the shot, the fly will fly away. If my stroke is too soft, it'll push the marshmallow cueball and it'll scare the fly away. If it's too hard, the cueball will resist piercing and I won't have enough momentum to reach the fly. Just before releasing the shot, I imagine the fly being increasingly aware of danger coming its way, and on the verge of taking off, so I really need to be very very quiet. Then I release my shot, spearing both the cueball and the fly. I know it's silly, but just conjuring up that little fiction in my mind seems to increase my accuracy a lot. You may want to give it a go...
 
Your swing hand should FINISH up by your ribs, Maybe behind the PECK muscle....SPF=randyg
 
randyg said:
Your swing hand should FINISH up by your ribs, Maybe behind the PECK muscle....SPF=randyg
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It does, but when my torso is more upright, it seems meets my ribs faster. It's only a problem when I shoot hard, or when I use my ribs as a positive stop to play very close balls without making a push shot foul.
 
Well said Keeb...and spot on! I enjoyed working with you last night...and thanks for the fine cajun dinner! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

greyghost said:
you hit the nail on the head, everyone is differient just remember to have a comfortable and repeatable stance, that helps you to deliver the cue to where you want it to go.

Besides bending the knees, you can also widen the stance which will bring down your center of gravity and reduce the bend of the back, and the neck...which helps stay those achy muscles. My self I always preferred taking that little back step to get down lower as opposed to bending both knees more, as I like to lock my rear leg in place as I like the stability it gives me, and have some bend in the front. But its whatever you feel find is the best for you, just try things out.

Thats what its all about, finding whats "YOUR" stance...but remember that changing your game takes time, its not going to fix all problems overnight...new improvments do not show fruition until you have praticed it enough so that it becomes a natural additional element to your own unique style of play.

Grey Ghost
Click to expand...
 
Fastolfe said:
Hello all,

I'm 6' tall and when I get my chin down on the cue for long shots, I tend to lower my entire body by bending the knees. If I don't do that, I get lower back pains after 2 or 3 hours of playing. What's more, I've always thought it was better for positioning on various tables that may have different height, since the arms and head are always positioned the same way with respect to the playing surface (in other words, the knees make up the height difference and the address stays constant). However, if I strike hard in that position, my shooting hand tends to ram my ribs and it's not really comfortable.

So which is better? bent at the back or bent at the knees? Is there a position that's better than the other for accuracy/consistency, or is it just a matter of personal preference and making the best of one's morphology?
Click to expand...

I'm 6'3 and I had a lot of problems getting low to the cue. Try dropping your right (rear foot) foot back when addressing the shot gets you low without the back strain. Doesn't work in a crowded bar only where there is room around a table.

I learned that tip from one of Randy G's (I believe it was him) posts.
 
Wonderful time full of learning

Scott Lee said:
Well said Keeb...and spot on! I enjoyed working with you last night...and thanks for the fine cajun dinner! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

so did I very much, great conversation and much learning took place. I was thinking today about how I said that I'm more consistent when I play alot, and rightfully so. I was very tired yesterday from the work and running around all day, so it was a stressful situation that affected how I addressed the shot. Being that I was in that situation and not in top form it gave me the unique ability to learn much more.

Take the slight elbow drop the two particular strokes, If I hadn't done that I might not have learned how to properly diagnose it and ways to fix it. That in turn greatly benefits not only me, but also the students that I have.

By the way the before we left for thanksgiving dinner I set the cue ball up to shoot a "3" and set up, pep, pause and finish...and it landed smack dab in the middle, and I just laughed.

I did notice one thing also, I believe that one of my problems with the elbow and not quite finishing all the way was/is that I was getting too low on the cue. With a COMPLETE finish, I found a tendency to basically hit my chin with the cue stick, being that I shoot with it centered on my sight line. I tried a small adjustment by just being just slightly higher and I could deliver the shot properly without getting in the way of myself, and seemed to help with keeping my elbow stationary.

I loved all the different drills and honestly it would have been worth the money for just the booklet that you gave me, awesome drills and information. One thing I like to do is just go over to the table for just one or two shots praticing the PEP and proper delivery. It's like coach used to tell us when we were running, "dont ever pass up a water fountain" Any time I walk by my table, I just do a few shots and giving it the utmost attention, and that does wonders, as its better to go 2 for 2 perfect than to hit 1000 shots wrong.

As always its a constant work in progress, just patience and pratice as always. I was very impressed with the whole package, as I didn't want lessons like most want (crazy stuff, kicking and banking and whatever) I wanted to be broken apart, and I got way more than my moneys worth. Can't wait to put it all together and get together again sometime to continue to learn and progress my knowledge and play book.

thanks again,
Grey Ghost

PS: glad you like the food brother :)
 
You just nailed it on the head. Scott's (and the rest of the SPF instructors) approach is to pinpoint the small things, break them out, and then help you put all the pieces back together. When you know how to properly deliver the cue ball where you want it to go, all the rest is so much easier. You can't learn the kicks and banks until you can consistently deliver the cue where it needs to be.

The learning never stops!

Steve
 
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