Do you buy a warped Southwest?

[tie19858]

I'm curious how bad the warpage can affect the resell value of a SW cue.

I live in Taiwan, and it's hot and humid here. Today (Aug 28th) we got nearly 80"F and over 70% humidity. The climate (in humidity) is way too much different from Las Vegas, and maybe that's the reason given most of southwest cues here are warped. Not only the shafts but also the butts, all tend to warp. It's really difficult to find a "DEAD STRAIGHT" southwest. Cue buyers here are used to this and you can see "The cue warps a little just like other SW" in many many local posts of selling SW cues. The warpage of a southwest cue hardly affect the resell value and, warped or not, SW is still the most sought after cue in Taiwan. But when the issue comes to the other brand, we are much more strict on the straightness of a custom cue.

I'm just curious, does the situation stand the same in states? Do you guys think the warpage of a SW cue is quite normal? Does the warpage hurt the resell value of a SW cue? Will you hesitate to buy a SW cue if the seller claims its warpage? Do you have bigger tolerance against cue warpage when it comes to Southwest?

I'm very curious about this question, but I don't have adequate English to describe it. Let me know if you need me further clarifying it.

Have a nice day.

Terence.

 

[bruin70]

i've seen warpage with the best of 'em...doesn't mean it's okay.

 

[paulybatz]

Warp

Unless I was getting the cue at about 75%-80% off retail would I even consider it.
Someone on the board sells warped cues all the time...a warped cue is like a car with a twisted axel, except you cant fix it.

 

[SCCues]

Warped cues

Do you guys think the warpage of a SW cue is quite normal?

No

Does the warpage hurt the resell value of a SW cue?

YES

Will you hesitate to buy a SW cue if the seller claims its warpage?

Absolutely

Do you have bigger tolerance against cue warpage when it comes to Southwest?

No, if a cue is warped it doesn't matter to me what brand it is. I'm not interested in buying a warped cue if I know it ahead of time. I want my cues to be straight and i'm not interested in owning a warped cue.

 

[pharaoh68]

i've seen warpage with the best of 'em...doesn't mean it's okay.

Wood warps. Its natural. Sometimes it happens a little more easily than others. Doesn't matter if its a production cue or a $25,000 one-of-a-kind custom cue. All cues made of wood are succeptible.

That being said, this does NOT make it ok no matter what kind of cue it is.

 

[half fast bankr]

I agree completely!

Agree all the way!
This was supposed to copy his entire post, but this annoying software restriction bounced back at me several times.

Anyway, ditto SCCues.

 

[ratcues]

For me, it depends on where the warp is.

If it is in the handle, I would buy it in a heartbeat, at a reduced price....maybe around 75% of actual market value.

If its in the farearm, that would depend on the price....50% or less.

 

[Fatboy]

all my SW cues i keep in Vegas and they are all 100% straight, its the humidity that is causing the problem, SW makes a cut every 3-4 weeks on their cues, i cant remember exactly how long, the air is dry there all the time, and most of the wood they use has sat for years, so taking them to a humid spot is a problem, becuaus they let the wood dehydrate between cuts, when they leave the shop they are perfect


Just like thomas wayne cues warp in vegas.

if SW's were brought back to vegas there is a good chance they would straighten out in a year or two.

 

[FeltMaster]

all my SW cues i keep in Vegas and they are all 100% straight, its the humidity that is causing the problem, SW makes a cut every 3-4 weeks on their cues, i cant remember exactly how long, the air is dry there all the time, and most of the wood they use has sat for years, so taking them to a humid spot is a problem, becuaus they let the wood dehydrate between cuts, when they leave the shop they are perfect


Just like thomas wayne cues warp in vegas.

if SW's were brought back to vegas there is a good chance they would straighten out in a year or two.

I live in Florida, Humidity and Temperatures higher than Asia at most times.
Keep your cues in a climate controlled location and you will not have any problems caused by the "environment". My cues are kept at 76 degrees and 40% humidity unless I take them out somewhere and even then they are never stored anywhere hot or humid (with the exception of a pool hall or two, never ever left in a vehicle)
This does for $100.00 productions cues to my one of a kind customs.

Just my 2 pennies.
Felt

 

[dave sutton]

For me, it depends on where the warp is.

If it is in the handle, I would buy it in a heartbeat, at a reduced price....maybe around 75% of actual market value.

If its in the farearm, that would depend on the price....50% or less.

you should put it in a lathe to see how bad first. rolling on a table isnt verry accurate. i rolled a friends shaft on 5 tables last week and every table rolled different. sometimes the slates are off

agreed. if the handle was warped it can be fixed for a few hundred.
shafts also can be replaced

if its in the forearm the cue is basically worthless to me.

i bet some ppl that would love to own a sw cue would pay a dicounted price. if the warp is low enough it wouldnt effect play at all.

 

[jazznpool]

I'm interested in buying authentic South West cues that are warped in the handle or are just plain tired and in need of repair if priced right. PM me if you have one you'd like to move.

Martin

 

[Hunter]

Hi All,

I think this is one of the major down sides of cue buying and selling. Too much subjectivity over a subject that doesn't matter most of the time, except when you try to sell the cue. I have had more cues than the law should allow and that being said, I have only seen ONE cue in all that time that would have a warp that would actually affect the play of the cue. It was an old SW that looked like a horseshoe and the warp was absolutely noticeable across a room.

I highly recommend talking to Kerry Zeiler about slight rollouts in a cue. He pretty much puts the nature of wood in perspective for you ala Red Foreman, "It's wood dumbass, it expands and contracts. I could sure charge you $250 to ease your mind that you've had it refaced, but you'd be better served to spend that money on lessons" (... or something pretty close to that sentiment ). We all know that Kerry is no slouch with wood, and I've certainly heard other cuemakers echo the same thought.

Now, we've got collectors and players that demand absolute perfection. I sell lots of cues and frankly, I almost always use the rollout verbage simply because I think there are very few perfect cues and I don't want anyone thinking I'm less than totally honest with them. I'm usually a lot more critical than my customers and when I advertise that there's a roll, which might be miniscule, it's usually the kiss of death to try to sell. It's a shame because most people that buy a cue from me are really pleasantly surprised how straight most of my cues are...

As mentioned there are a few cues that seem to notoriously have "the curse", SW, Bender, and DPK, just to name a couple. These are some of the finest hitting cues around rollout or not.

I might go against the mainstream here, but I think we make much ado about nothing. Organic materials are not spec grade titanium. They move a little...

Steve

 

[Cuemaster98]

It's the same with phillipine cues... I still believe they have some of the best craftsmanship in the world. Unfortunately these guys make cues in humid condition and when it gets to North America and they warped. It's just different condition. Didn't surprise me that Southwest or the best cue from here will warped in another country.

Even southwest that are here in US are mostly warped but many expert believe the cues are not warped and that they are due to the parabolic taper roll. I'm still confused on the issue with southwest straightness....about 8 of 10 are has a roll in them.

I guess the cue sales of the future will be requiring Video of a cue spinning on a lathe or rolling on a table to show no light variances.

What more important to me is not the straightness anymore but how it plays. It's important but it the cue has a slight roll and sight straight...it should be good enough for me. I don't know if the cue been straight make it plays better or more accurate?? The industry has to start defining what is consider "Straight". Can a cue be perfectly straight or maintain this straightness for the life of a cue?? I don't think it possible and I don't personal think any thing Perfect exist....especially when a cue get pass around from Taiwan to US or vice versa. For a perfectly straight cue...probably fibreglass or some other material such as aluminum needs to be used.

Duc.

 

[tie19858]

...........
Even southwest that are here in US are mostly warped but many expert believe the cues are not warped and that they are due to the parabolic taper roll. I'm still confused on the issue with southwest straightness....about 8 of 10 are has a roll in them.

................

Duc,

You just pointed out an important observation: according to your experience, 8 of 10 SW cues has a roll in them. But our poll shows that the majority buyers wouldn't purchase a warped SW cue. Meanwhile I believe SW cues sells very quickly in states as well, and I didn't see any SW cues in blowout sale in AZ either.

So what happened to the sells? Why our poll doesn't match with your observation?

Is it because the people who votes for not buying a warped SW doesn't have a SW at all? or they THINK their SW cues are straight but actually they are not?

Thanks for your input very much. I really enjoy this kind of discussion.

Terence.

 

[cueaddicts]

Hi All,

I think this is one of the major down sides of cue buying and selling. Too much subjectivity over a subject that doesn't matter most of the time, except when you try to sell the cue. I have had more cues than the law should allow and that being said, I have only seen ONE cue in all that time that would have a warp that would actually affect the play of the cue. It was an old SW that looked like a horseshoe and the warp was absolutely noticeable across a room.

I highly recommend talking to Kerry Zeiler about slight rollouts in a cue. He pretty much puts the nature of wood in perspective for you ala Red Foreman, "It's wood dumbass, it expands and contracts. I could sure charge you $250 to ease your mind that you've had it refaced, but you'd be better served to spend that money on lessons" (... or something pretty close to that sentiment ). We all know that Kerry is no slouch with wood, and I've certainly heard other cuemakers echo the same thought.

Now, we've got collectors and players that demand absolute perfection. I sell lots of cues and frankly, I almost always use the rollout verbage simply because I think there are very few perfect cues and I don't want anyone thinking I'm less than totally honest with them. I'm usually a lot more critical than my customers and when I advertise that there's a roll, which might be miniscule, it's usually the kiss of death to try to sell. It's a shame because most people that buy a cue from me are really pleasantly surprised how straight most of my cues are...

As mentioned there are a few cues that seem to notoriously have "the curse", SW, Bender, and DPK, just to name a couple. These are some of the finest hitting cues around rollout or not.

I might go against the mainstream here, but I think we make much ado about nothing. Organic materials are not spec grade titanium. They move a little...

Steve

Steve, as usual, you are spot on. Great post. I completely agree.

There is a lot of IGNORANCE out there about cues and shafts with respect to warpage. Ignorance is not a bad thing....it's just lack of knowledge and experience. One one end, a Seller might disclose a very minor warp, say a few thousandths of an inch, and upon receipt Buyer A is pleasantly surprised at how straight it is and Buyer B won't even consider purchasing it or would ask to return it. To each their own, but nearly ever cue will exhibit a small degree of warpage....brand new ones or heavily used oldcer cues. People need to understand that wood also has the tendency to move.

Back to the question. Yes, I would most certainly buy a warped SW at warped SW prices if it's localized to the handle. One quick fly-by over Clever, Missouri, a couple of hundred bucks, and walla, she's straight again.

 

[HIRUN526]

I have had seven South West cues and currently own 2 South West Cues and all were are are considered straight. The butt taper on a South West can have a slight taper roll which to me is no big deal. The shafts have never been a problem for me. If a see a little uneven light on a shaft it doesn't bother me.

Wood is continually adjusting to conditions humudity and temperature in general use and have some movement.

I store my cues hanging at an average of 76 degress and 48 percent humidity.

I have never had a cue warp in 25 years and have cues as old as 40 years.