I did the same thing somewhat to my old 314 (accidentally actualy through sanding) and loved it a ton more! I can't for the life of me adjust to the z shaft though. I'm thinking about getting the 314-2 with a moori medium.instroke75 said:
Do you find Predator shaft too soft?
- Thread starter X Breaker
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No Illusions said:
I too like the way my ob-1 shaft hits. I haven't played with it very long, but it seems that I needed no getting used to it at all. I don't think the hit is "soft" so much as you just don't feel the vibration or shock of the hit due to the shafts internal properties (vibration reducing foam core).
I have tried both the 314 and the Z shafts. The 314 hits ok, but it did take some getting used to, and was too big IMO. The Z shaft, although it is the size and taper I like, took a great deal of getting used to and I didn't like it at all.
The ob-1 shaft is thicker than I normally like (12.75 as opposed to 11.75 - 12) but I really didn't mind the bigger thickness at all. It actually helped my accuracy in shot making.
XBreaker, try out a buddy's OB-1 for a while and see if you like it.
I had a bad experience with the 314 also. I spent like $500.00 on a predator cue. I tried shooting with it for like 3 months and hated it. It just didnt feel right. Some people I'm sure like them and that's great. But, I bet for those who have shot with a conventional shaft for years, less then half of these people would switch if a 314 was given to them. JMO I feel the advertising that they do is misleading and it gets alot of people to fork out big bucks for a big pain in the back side.
I have a total of 5 predator 314 shafts fitted to different cues (trim rings), but I can use any of them on either cue. All of my shafts have Moori III slow tips and they don't play exactly the same. The taper is standard and the tip is the same, but one of them is a little softer than the other 4, but I like the way they all play. It's possible that you have a 314 that hits on the soft side since I can say they don't all play the same based on the 5 314's I own.X Breaker said:Well, I really just want to know if I am doing it wrong so to speak. I like to give it one last try and I like to be sure it is really not for me.
I can see why it helps to aim straight for certain shots, but the cue ball still swerves if I hit it soft, and I am used to aiming a certain way anyway. So, this aiming benefit is not really that big of a deal to me. I do not understand how it can really be more forgiving. I mean, when I miss, mostly it is because I aim at the wrong spot or I deliver my cue wrong.
I am not a very good player, and I am just trying to be more open minded so I can learn something hopfully.
My biggest concern with the 314 or any shaft is the way it hits and feels. I like a cue whereas I can just let it go through the ball on its own, while giving me many levels of feedback depending on the situation. When I try the 314, I can shoot just fine, but it feels like I am not getting the feedback I expect. It is like shooting into quicksand. I am sorry I am not sure how to describe it. May be I am just crazy...
I dont think it is the tip. I am using a traingle now. I was using a Moori.
My 314 is custom fitted to my playing cue, so I am not sure what generation. I think it is the ones made before they move to China. Mine does not have the phenolic insert, or the Titan ferrule.
I agree that a solid regular shaft hits firmer with more power, but i'll take the 314 shaft with less deflection as my choice of shafts.
X Breaker said:Well, I really just want to know if I am doing it wrong so to speak. I like to give it one last try and I like to be sure it is really not for me.
I can see why it helps to aim straight for certain shots, but the cue ball still swerves if I hit it soft, and I am used to aiming a certain way anyway. So, this aiming benefit is not really that big of a deal to me. I do not understand how it can really be more forgiving. I mean, when I miss, mostly it is because I aim at the wrong spot or I deliver my cue wrong.
I am not a very good player, and I am just trying to be more open minded so I can learn something hopfully.
My biggest concern with the 314 or any shaft is the way it hits and feels. I like a cue whereas I can just let it go through the ball on its own, while giving me many levels of feedback depending on the situation. When I try the 314, I can shoot just fine, but it feels like I am not getting the feedback I expect. It is like shooting into quicksand. I am sorry I am not sure how to describe it. May be I am just crazy...
I dont think it is the tip. I am using a traingle now. I was using a Moori.
My 314 is custom fitted to my playing cue, so I am not sure what generation. I think it is the ones made before they move to China. Mine does not have the phenolic insert, or the Titan ferrule.
It sounds like you have the first generation 314. I too had the 314 and I couldn’t ‘feel’ my shots. I was coming out either short or too long on my shape. After a couple of months, I decided to sell it and go back to the stock shaft.
A couple of weeks ago, I was at a pool hall and they had a demo shaft of the 314 and Z 2nd generation. I installed a shaft on my cue and played with each one for about an hour. My first impression, I could feel the shots (well at least more than the 1st gen.). I don’t recall this feel from the first gen shaft so I think by mounting the joint insert into phenolic made a difference. It doesn’t feel like a conventional shaft, but better than the first generation. IMHO. I suggest trying out the 2nd generation, maybe your pool hall has demo shafts available.
Thank you for everyone's help. It is nice to know at least I am not the only one who has this feeling. Thank you for not calling me crazy.
I have owed about 4 Predator shafts. I also had 2 Z shafts. But they were all with the older ferrule, and no insert.
I recently tried the new ones, on a Joss, but it did not feel much different. I only tried it for a brief hour, so it is hard to really tell. The Joss had a metal joint, and the balance was quite backward.
I have recently changed my stroke, I used to shot the balls quite hard. Now, I am trying to stroke them much softer. What I used to like and what I like now is a bit different due to my different stroke. I was not too crazy with the 314 but I want to try it again becuase now my game is a bit different.
I am may be a bit spolied, too. Since in the last 5 months or so, I have been playing with a BlueGrass, a couple Southwest, then a James White. These are all very stiff hitting cues, which do not require me to hit the ball hard at all. Once I put a Predator shaft on, I felt that I had to hit the balls harder.
It is true may be I have a softer 314 shaft, as I too notice that they all play differently. Another thing I suspect is that this shaft might be too light.
Anyway, thank you for all your input and help. Much appreciated.
Richard
I have owed about 4 Predator shafts. I also had 2 Z shafts. But they were all with the older ferrule, and no insert.
I recently tried the new ones, on a Joss, but it did not feel much different. I only tried it for a brief hour, so it is hard to really tell. The Joss had a metal joint, and the balance was quite backward.
I have recently changed my stroke, I used to shot the balls quite hard. Now, I am trying to stroke them much softer. What I used to like and what I like now is a bit different due to my different stroke. I was not too crazy with the 314 but I want to try it again becuase now my game is a bit different.
I am may be a bit spolied, too. Since in the last 5 months or so, I have been playing with a BlueGrass, a couple Southwest, then a James White. These are all very stiff hitting cues, which do not require me to hit the ball hard at all. Once I put a Predator shaft on, I felt that I had to hit the balls harder.
It is true may be I have a softer 314 shaft, as I too notice that they all play differently. Another thing I suspect is that this shaft might be too light.
Anyway, thank you for all your input and help. Much appreciated.
Richard
Yes, I find it too "soft" and I prefer a non-predator shaft.
Years ago when I bought my first real custom cue from Mike Webb I had been playing with a Predator on my McDermott for a year or so. Mike let me try 1 of his shafts and a Predator fitted to it for a while to make a final decision which I would go with. I found I just like the hit of his shaft better than the Predator. I also found that squirt (swerve, whatever the right term is) wasn't a problem for me, maybe it is my style of play. At any rate, I went with Mike's normal shaft and haven't regretted it.
Years ago when I bought my first real custom cue from Mike Webb I had been playing with a Predator on my McDermott for a year or so. Mike let me try 1 of his shafts and a Predator fitted to it for a while to make a final decision which I would go with. I found I just like the hit of his shaft better than the Predator. I also found that squirt (swerve, whatever the right term is) wasn't a problem for me, maybe it is my style of play. At any rate, I went with Mike's normal shaft and haven't regretted it.
Just to add that I'm not bashing Predator either...each player has to find what works for them...I have tried every shaft out at Seybert's...the Z shaft sprayed the CB everywhere...I couldn't get it to stay on the shot at all....but some people might get used to it....who knows...the OB-1 was ok but seemed to deaden the feel to more than the Predator...these are JMHOs...
i had someone tell me that from long usage or cleaning or sanding..that once a 314 has worn down from it original size..its time to get a new one..A guy i know get a new one every other year...I will say this..hitting with my lucassi, and i shoot with one of their more expensive end cues..that has a 314, and compare it to the sneaky pete predator..with a 314 ...they dont hit the same...i guess shaft and cue match has something to do with it as well. I am torn right now..I thinking about three custom cues to get right now and just dont know which way to go...Bludworth, Parrot, or Varney....I gona have to narrow it down...tax time is upon me..hehehe
Richard,
Funny you mention this lol, tonight I went to one of the pool hall to see if any of the APA 9ball teams needed a player, well it was the last week of playoffs and one of the girls i know has a old SP predator w/ 314 shaft w2w joint. Which the cue usta be mine lol
Well shes practicing and had her food comming so i step in and start to practice and was using the predator, and noticed that it hit very soft. I didnt have a problem potting balls and running out, but i did notice that the cue played extremely soft. Even when breaking with the cue, it felt like i was breaking with a sponge for a tip.
Now my playing cue is a Gilbert JB w/ moori med tip, which obviously has a stiffer hit.
Anyways, I love a stiff hitting cue, but this predator seriously felt too soft.
Also, If you love a stiff hitting cue, why dont you just stick with one of your other Custom cues that has a stiffer hit?
later Dave
Funny you mention this lol, tonight I went to one of the pool hall to see if any of the APA 9ball teams needed a player, well it was the last week of playoffs and one of the girls i know has a old SP predator w/ 314 shaft w2w joint. Which the cue usta be mine lol
Well shes practicing and had her food comming so i step in and start to practice and was using the predator, and noticed that it hit very soft. I didnt have a problem potting balls and running out, but i did notice that the cue played extremely soft. Even when breaking with the cue, it felt like i was breaking with a sponge for a tip.
Now my playing cue is a Gilbert JB w/ moori med tip, which obviously has a stiffer hit.
Anyways, I love a stiff hitting cue, but this predator seriously felt too soft.
Also, If you love a stiff hitting cue, why dont you just stick with one of your other Custom cues that has a stiffer hit?
later Dave
I have had similar experiences with the Predator shaft and I've tried quite a few of them including 314s, and Zs both 1st and 2nd gen. and I've noticed that the hit really is different from one shaft to another. I guess it's because it's a commonly known fact that Predator doesn't use the best wood material in the shafts so you'll never know what kind of low-quality wood is in the shaft.
Because of the light carbonfiber(?) rod near the ferrule area, the hit feels hollow and soft and while I can spin the cueball like crazy with it, the speed control is more like lottery and there is no feel nor good feedback to get used to shooting with one.
I can play ok with a Predator shaft, but I much rather play with a regular shaft of my regular Scruggs cue
Because of the light carbonfiber(?) rod near the ferrule area, the hit feels hollow and soft and while I can spin the cueball like crazy with it, the speed control is more like lottery and there is no feel nor good feedback to get used to shooting with one.
I can play ok with a Predator shaft, but I much rather play with a regular shaft of my regular Scruggs cue
ok with all the talk of the predator shaft being such a soft hit, where does the tiger shaft fit into this area...does it have a soft or stiff hit. the reason i am asking this is because i am just about the receive my long awaited custom cue and i was looking for a shaft to go with it. now i have another question...would you advise getting the new shaft now and learn about the cue and the way it hits with the shaft that comes with it or buy a custom shaft?
thank you in advance
sambo
thank you in advance
sambo
Anyone who wants the hit stiffened up on their Predator should send it to Kevin Varney. He's famous for working magic on Predators.
After having a slump with my sneaky with a 3142, I shot at the bar last night with a 21oz cuetec house cue and played the best i have in a while. Now I may have a custom built with the same weight and balance as that cue to try to recreate the feel. I think I will get a universal smartshaft to fit it. My search for the perfect cue continues!!
In my opinion, the taper has quite a bit to do with the hit being stiff or soft, and it is very subjective. I do not beleive one cue maker can say he can make a shaft liked by just about any player by working on the ferrule alone without knowing what that person likes. Without changing the taper and the weight, I do not see how any "magic" can help me here.(Although I am sure it may work for some players, I really care about the balance of a cue)
I can see some benefits with the 314, especially with super spin shots. I can really spin the cue ball; however, it is just not my cup of tea. It is easier to aim on medium firm shot with english, because swerve does not really come into play and the shaft has very little squirt. But I play a lot of soft shots, I want to be able to feel the shot and control my cue ball consistently. I also want to feel effortless when I play a powershot. I just feel much more comfortable with a regular shafts. But I can see why snooker players and players with a "snooker" type stroke would like this shaft. It allows the players to keep their strokes simple on different types on shots.
The funny thing is if I change the ferrule and put something inside, I will change the low squirt benefit of the 314, which is basically the whole point of having the shaft in the first place.
So, I will leave it at that.
I appreciate everyone's feedback. Thank you.
Cue has been a passion and I always enjoy trying out new cues. I can say I now have more experience with cues than I had a year ago although I am still a long way from really knowing anything.
Other than just buying and trying cues, I was very blessed in having the pleasure of talking to quite a few pro players and listening to their feedback on various shafts and cues. It really boardens my prespective on cues. (Again, I am still learning and am a long way from really understand anything yet.)
I used my Southwest with yellow micarta ferrule last night, and I could certainly feel that the original shaft was more powerful. It also felt like my tip could stay on the ball a bit longer. (I am not sure if that was the actual case, just how I felt.)
I think different people have different strokes, and the original shaft with my playing cue is the way to go for me personally.
I may change my stroke or discover that the 314 is indeed the best for me in the future, I am not sure. I will keep an open mind.
I have heard a lot of good things about the X shaft from different players. I have tried the early version and I think they had a longer taper. When I saw Pamela Treadway's Tiger last year, it looked to have a stiffer taper. I do not really have any problem with my original shaft now, but I think I will give the X shaft a try when I see these folks in Valley Forge.
I have heard so many things about low deflection on a shaft. I hope one day someone can come up with a production shaft that is more accurate and consistent with cue ball control. I think that would really be awesome.
I can see some benefits with the 314, especially with super spin shots. I can really spin the cue ball; however, it is just not my cup of tea. It is easier to aim on medium firm shot with english, because swerve does not really come into play and the shaft has very little squirt. But I play a lot of soft shots, I want to be able to feel the shot and control my cue ball consistently. I also want to feel effortless when I play a powershot. I just feel much more comfortable with a regular shafts. But I can see why snooker players and players with a "snooker" type stroke would like this shaft. It allows the players to keep their strokes simple on different types on shots.
The funny thing is if I change the ferrule and put something inside, I will change the low squirt benefit of the 314, which is basically the whole point of having the shaft in the first place.
So, I will leave it at that.
I appreciate everyone's feedback. Thank you.
Cue has been a passion and I always enjoy trying out new cues. I can say I now have more experience with cues than I had a year ago although I am still a long way from really knowing anything.
Other than just buying and trying cues, I was very blessed in having the pleasure of talking to quite a few pro players and listening to their feedback on various shafts and cues. It really boardens my prespective on cues. (Again, I am still learning and am a long way from really understand anything yet.
)I used my Southwest with yellow micarta ferrule last night, and I could certainly feel that the original shaft was more powerful. It also felt like my tip could stay on the ball a bit longer. (I am not sure if that was the actual case, just how I felt.)
I think different people have different strokes, and the original shaft with my playing cue is the way to go for me personally.
I may change my stroke or discover that the 314 is indeed the best for me in the future, I am not sure. I will keep an open mind.
I have heard a lot of good things about the X shaft from different players. I have tried the early version and I think they had a longer taper. When I saw Pamela Treadway's Tiger last year, it looked to have a stiffer taper. I do not really have any problem with my original shaft now, but I think I will give the X shaft a try when I see these folks in Valley Forge.
I have heard so many things about low deflection on a shaft. I hope one day someone can come up with a production shaft that is more accurate and consistent with cue ball control. I think that would really be awesome.
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Back before I became married with child, I could afford to buy a *fresh* 314 on a regular basis. Every 6-12 months was typical. As a result, I've had over a dozen of them since somewhere around '95. I've found that 314's do "soften" up over time and the feel of a new one is noticeably better than a seasoned one.
For your reference, the advertisements show(ed) a black filler material in the hollow end of the shaft. I've inspected the hollow section of many 314's and not one of them had anything so fancy in there. Some had a foam insert, some had a thin film of resin, and some just had glue in there. The depth & diameter of the hollow section always looked the same. No matter how they varied, they all hit the same to me.
For those that said they sanded their 314 down (as far as 12mm)...I can't imagine it could survive a single shot that way. The sidewall of the hollow section had to be paper thin.
This is my sketch of a cross-section of the 314.
For your reference, the advertisements show(ed) a black filler material in the hollow end of the shaft. I've inspected the hollow section of many 314's and not one of them had anything so fancy in there. Some had a foam insert, some had a thin film of resin, and some just had glue in there. The depth & diameter of the hollow section always looked the same. No matter how they varied, they all hit the same to me.
For those that said they sanded their 314 down (as far as 12mm)...I can't imagine it could survive a single shot that way. The sidewall of the hollow section had to be paper thin.
This is my sketch of a cross-section of the 314.