Do you foresee an American world champion within the next 5 years?

[iusedtoberich]

SJM called it the "de facto" world championship, which is not the same as calling it a world championship.

What he's saying is, there is no other bank tournament on earth with a larger field, better players, and more money.

World championship is just a label, at the end of the day it's just another tournament. Kind of like a lot of State Championships are really just "Local Pool Tour Stop #14".

I missed that. But, lots of people call it the "World Championship". And SJM said Daulton is the reigning "World Champion" in his first sentence. That is wrong. There is no bigger straight pool even than Charlie's 14.1. It is not called a "World Championship" either.

We all know the reason the WPA sanctions a world championship. Its to keep mom and pop events from being called World Championships. We can't pick and choose because an event has a lot of top players, like DCC Banks or Charlies 14.1. Its either WPA sanctioned or its not.

 

[robsnotes4u]

Single elimination at the end makes it a tough format for anyone to win


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[Mole Eye]

As long as the World Championships are played in Asia, where only 2 or 3 Americans go play, my guess is that we won't see an American world champion. On the other hand, if for some strange reason the event was held in North America where the top Americans would play, I'd say we had as good a shot as anybody.

 

[kollegedave]

Shannon Daulton is reigning World Banks Champion, having beaten fellow American John Brumback in last year's final. Skylar is also capable of winning a world championship at banks. Certainly, the Derby City banks is the de facto World Championship. in this discipline, and Americans win this one all the time.

In one pocket, guys like Frost, Bergman, Van Boening, Deuel and a few others can win. Certainly, the Derby City 1-pocket is the de facto World Championship. in this discipline and Americans often win this.

In 9-ball, outside of this year's runnerup SVB, who will likely win one, the only player with a shot over the next few years is Dechaine. He's had a third place finish in the Derby City 9-ball, a fourth place finish in the US Open 9-ball and tied for ninth in this year's world 9-ball championship. None of the other Americans, Bergman and Woodward included, have shown an ability to go very deep in the three toughest 9-ball events of the year. Until they post a top five in one of these elite events, I won't be taking their chances of winning a world championship in 9-ball very seriously. That said, they are young improving players with big upsides, but to me they are more in with a chance if a ten year span is considered.

In 14.1, there is no real world championship, with the Dragon 14.1, the upcoming US Open 14.1 and the European 14.1 championships all being prestigious titles.

SJM, am I right in thinking that most world championship 10ball or 9ball events are have alternate the break formats? My recollection is that they do. Were they to play winner break (especially in 10ball) I think SVB would have already won many, and would win many more. Also, it is worth noting that Skylar Woodward just won the Music City Open that consisted of a very impressive field (although clearly it is a bar table event), and the score to the final set was 11 - 0. Someone told me he ran 16 racks in a row--I heard this second hand to double-dip McMinn.

On some level though, what do you think about the idea that an alternating break format would seem to hurt skilled breakers--like SVB and Dechaine?

kollegedave

 

[iusedtoberich]

As long as the World Championships are played in Asia, where only 2 or 3 Americans go play, my guess is that we won't see an American world champion. On the other hand, if for some strange reason the event was held in North America where the top Americans would play, I'd say we had as good a shot as anybody.

I think only 2 or 3 have gone for the past 10 years because that is all the US had to offer in world class caliber players.

 

[pwd72s]

As long as the World Championships are played in Asia, where only 2 or 3 Americans go play, my guess is that we won't see an American world champion. On the other hand, if for some strange reason the event was held in North America where the top Americans would play, I'd say we had as good a shot as anybody.

JB touched on this & you extended it. The rigors of travel, strange food, strange bed, and jet lag all take their toll. This gives the locals an edge, one difficult to overcome. Maybe with 2-3 weeks to acclimate to the environment our guys would have a better chance.

 

[PoolBum]

I think only Shane and Bergman have a chance. I don't know of any 15 year olds coming up.

Skylar is not in their league, imo.

I agree with this.

 

[jalapus logan]

I missed that. But, lots of people call it the "World Championship". And SJM said Daulton is the reigning "World Champion" in his first sentence. That is wrong. There is no bigger straight pool even than Charlie's 14.1. It is not called a "World Championship" either.

We all know the reason the WPA sanctions a world championship. Its to keep mom and pop events from being called World Championships. We can't pick and choose because an event has a lot of top players, like DCC Banks or Charlies 14.1. Its either WPA sanctioned or its not.

The desperate state of pool tourneys and the even more desperate state of sanctioning bodies in pool (WPA!) leave pool fans like us having to use our own judgement as to what qualifies in our own minds as a "World Championship". I don't care that the DCC events are not called "World Championship" at all. They are amongst the top tier events in the world each year, IMO, and therefore merit the weight that SJM is giving them. The DCC bank event and onepocket events in particular are the most difficult to win tourney in the world for these two games. they feature the best, deepest talented field featuring these disciplines, therefore they carry the most weight of any tourney in the world for these two games.

It's OK, that others have a different opinion though. No debate here on the webbernet will fix pool's moribund state of affairs nor will it create a viable, respected sanctioning body that anyone gives a damn about.

 

[sjm]

SJM, am I right in thinking that most world championship 10ball or 9ball events are have alternate the break formats? My recollection is that they do. Were they to play winner break (especially in 10ball) I think SVB would have already won many, and would win many more. Also, it is worth noting that Skylar Woodward just won the Music City Open that consisted of a very impressive field (although clearly it is a bar table event), and the score to the final set was 11 - 0. Someone told me he ran 16 racks in a row--I heard this second hand to double-dip McMinn.

On some level though, what do you think about the idea that an alternating break format would seem to hurt skilled breakers--like SVB and Dechaine?

kollegedave

First, I don't think alternate break gets in the way of the best players winning the biggest titles, and don't agree that SVB would have won by now without it.

Second, nothing that happens on a bar table has any relevance to projecting a future world champion. Comparing the Music City Open field to a first tier world class event is also a bit out there. It's not even on a par with the Derby, the Steinway Classic, Turning Stone, or Super Billiards Expo and these four events are not on a par with the US Open or the World 9-ball Championships.

While guys like Bergman and Skyler are intriguing for their potential, they've yet to post a top five in an event of the highest magnitude, and are not among those who often collect the biggest scalps in international pool. By comparison, Dechaine has a 2nd at Turning Stone, a third at the Derby City 9-ball, a 4th at the US Open, 4th at Super Billiards Expo, a 9th at the World 9-ball Championships, and has won the prestigious Ultimate 10-ball event, too.

This thread has come with a lot of good laughs from those who don't even count Dechaine as one of those capable of reaching the top, given that he's the only one of the American twenty somethings that has demonstrated he can make a very deep run against the toughest internationally diverse fields.

I'm a big fan of Bergman and Woodward and I'll delight in anything they accomplish, but right now, they've got pretty unimpressive credentials in top 9-ball tournament play. They can change that in a hurry at the Derby City 9-ball.

 

[Blue Jam]

JB touched on this & you extended it. The rigors of travel, strange food, strange bed, and jet lag all take their toll. This gives the locals an edge, one difficult to overcome. Maybe with 2-3 weeks to acclimate to the environment our guys would have a better chance.

The winners of the 9ball World Championships are from countries this far away from Doha,

2010 - 4,525 miles.
2011 - 5,125 miles.
2012 - 3,252 miles.
2013 - 2,799 miles.
2014 - 3,029 miles.
2015 - 4,323 miles.

Not exactly locals.

 

[JB Cases]

The winners of the 9ball World Championships are from countries this far away from Doha,

2010 - 4,525 miles.
2011 - 5,125 miles.
2012 - 3,252 miles.
2013 - 2,799 miles.
2014 - 3,029 miles.
2015 - 4,323 miles.

Not exactly locals.

And most of them are accustomed to traveling across many time zones.

Kelly Fisher didn't start winning in Asia until I advised her to do two things. #1 get the same cloth the tournaments are played on and put it on her practice table. #2 get to China early and get acclimated to the time and environment.

After she did this she started feeling very comfortable and could play her game with confidence.

Distance from Doha to Rapid City, SD 11906 kilometers or 7398 miles

 

[arps]

it will always depend on how many American players participate in world championship events - the more, the better chances of winning. SVB will always be the top bet to get it. Wont be surprised if he gets it this year. The finals match last year against Ko was so close that SVB can be considered a world champ.
I'd pick Dechaine too because of his performance in last year's W9B. he made it to top 16 and lost a close fight against Little Ko (9-11). I also like Justin Bergman. He is smart at the table and knows when to be aggressive.

 

[sjm]

it will always depend on how many American players participate in world championship events - the more, the better chances of winning. SVB will always be the top bet to get it. Wont be surprised if he gets it this year. The finals match last year against Ko was so close that SVB can be considered a world champ.

This is well said and is a very important point. The extent to which the top American 20-somethings (Dechaine, Bergman and Woodward) participate in the World 9-ball Championships is the great unknown here.

I'd pick Dechaine too because of his performance in last year's W9B. he made it to top 16 and lost a close fight against Little Ko (9-11).

Yes, and we can add that Dechaine beat both of the Ko brothers at Turning Stone just over a week ago, eliminating them both from the event.

 

[one stroke]

First, I don't think alternate break gets in the way of the best players winning the biggest titles, and don't agree that SVB would have won by now without it.

Second, nothing that happens on a bar table has any relevance to projecting a future world champion. Comparing the Music City Open field to a first tier world class event is also a bit out there. It's not even on a par with the Derby, the Steinway Classic, Turning Stone, or Super Billiards Expo and these four events are not on a par with the US Open or the World 9-ball Championships.

While guys like Bergman and Skyler are intriguing for their potential, they've yet to post a top five in an event of the highest magnitude, and are not among those who often collect the biggest scalps in international pool. By comparison, Dechaine has a 2nd at Turning Stone, a third at the Derby City 9-ball, a 4th at the US Open, 4th at Super Billiards Expo, a 9th at the World 9-ball Championships, and has won the prestigious Ultimate 10-ball event, too.

This thread has come with a lot of good laughs from those who don't even count Dechaine as one of those capable of reaching the top, given that he's the only one of the American twenty somethings that has demonstrated he can make a very deep run against the toughest internationally diverse fields.

I'm a big fan of Bergman and Woodward and I'll delight in anything they accomplish, but right now, they've got pretty unimpressive credentials in top 9-ball tournament play. They can change that in a hurry at the Derby City 9-ball.

I agree Mike has shown he can compete at that level , I'm still not sold on his mental side to grind out a win ,, as for Berg and Sky ,, IMHO I think Sky although might be a click behind Berg right now I think he's gaining fast and his temperament is way beyond his yrs ,, might be the best Iv seen since Cory at his age , if he starts traveling aboad like Morra has done I really like his chances over Berg
Shane of corse is the hands on choice ,
Anyone who scarfs at a world title should ask the top players what that would mean to them because I have and they all have said its a big feather in the cap as it should be
1

 

[one stroke]

it will always depend on how many American players participate in world championship events - the more, the better chances of winning. SVB will always be the top bet to get it. Wont be surprised if he gets it this year. The finals match last year against Ko was so close that SVB can be considered a world champ.
I'd pick Dechaine too because of his performance in last year's W9B. he made it to top 16 and lost a close fight against Little Ko (9-11). I also like Justin Bergman. He is smart at the table and knows when to be aggressive.

No your either a world champion or not there's noo trophy for second I'm more than sure he does not consider himself a world champiom

1

 

[sjm]

I agree Mike has shown he can compete at that level , I'm still not sold on his mental side to grind out a win ,, as for Berg and Sky ,, IMHO I think Sky although might be a click behind Berg right now I think he's gaining fast and his temperament is way beyond his yrs ,, might be the best Iv seen since Cory at his age , if he starts traveling aboad like Morra has done I really like his chances over Berg
Shane of corse is the hands on choice ,
Anyone who scarfs at a world title should ask the top players what that would mean to them because I have and they all have said its a big feather in the cap as it should be
1

Agreed, it's likely Shane or nobody in the near-term future, but I'll be rooting for all of these guys to succeed and wish them the best of luck.

 

[one stroke]

Agreed, it's likely Shane or nobody in the near-term future, but I'll be rooting for all of these guys to succeed and wish them the best of luck.

Yep although I'm would not mind seeing Morra win one since I lived there for ten yrs and we have talked numeras times ,, other than him and Bergs feud , I think him and Sky would do themselves well following his path to success

1

 

[gxman]

I hate to see it happen, but 5 yrs from now there might not even be a world championship tourney. These oil tycoons arent making money like in the past to throw away money with sponsorship.

 

[one stroke]

I hate to see it happen, but 5 yrs from now there might not even be a world championship tourney. These oil tycoons arent making money like in the past to throw away money with sponsorship.

Ya so much for producing more oil which we do more than ever in history how's that working out ,, more means less keystone pipeline goes in kiss off shore rigs goodby ,, be carful or what you wish for

1

 

[iusedtoberich]

I hate to see it happen, but 5 yrs from now there might not even be a world championship tourney. These oil tycoons arent making money like in the past to throw away money with sponsorship.

I was thinking similar, unfortunately.

There was a promoter a few years back (5 or so?) in Manilla, when Efren and Busty were boycotting the World Championship (forgot if it was 9B or 10B). Anyway, he ended up going bust too.