Do You have a Talent?

[jsp]

I've thought of this topic a lot myself. I think to be a pro (not A+, A, B, but pro), you need to have BOTH incredible talent, and the work ethic to go with it. There are a lot of A+, A players that can have the same, if not a better, work ethic than most pros, but you don't have the uncanny talent the pros possess, you'll be limited...no matter how hard and how much practice you put in.

I think the main question is, what exactly is the "talent" that distinguishes the pros between the rest? Is it sound mechanics? Is it speed control? Is it position play? Is it mental toughness in pressure situations? I think the "talent" that truly separates the men from the boys is pure shot making and pocketing skills. To an extent, decent shot making can be learned, but the outstanding shot making of the pros cannot be learned. It's either you have it, or you don't. The rest of the skills I mentioned above can be learned and engrained through time and practice. But shot making is different. That is why the likes of Buddy Hall and Earl Strickland can run a rack of 9ball only days after first picking up a cue...because they've always had that uncanny shot making ability even before they took their first ever pool shot. Anyone disagree?

 

[jsp]

An addendum...

Actually, the "shot making" that I'm referring is the ability to pot balls anywhere on the table with ANY type of english applied...draw, follow, extreme outside, inside...etc. That's why not all snooker players can be pro pool players.

 

[Roll-Off]

The fact is, there's a lot of players out there who think they are A players when they aren't. There's nine levels of pool, C to A including + and -. When idiots, like Last Two, say there's such a thing as A+++ or whatever, I just laugh. Evidently, he never got A's in school because an A+ is 100%. That is the very best and Efren is an A+. Everyone else falls below this level. In Last Two's case, a D or F category should be recognized.

 

[Snapshot9]

We just keep it simple here ...

We just keep it simple, 2 to 12 rating for 9 ball.
If we need to get complicated, we can say player
A is a 9.2 and B is a 9.7..... lol

 

[JustPlay]

I would guess that having natural talent is the ability to learn, adjust or create something that is new to a person and start to excel at it in a short period of time. As an example, the current world 9-ball champion (forgot his name, sorry), he is only 16 years old, he could not have been playing for a long period of time, yet he was able to go from banging balls around to beating the best players on the planet.

I think he is the best example of a naturally talented pool player. I think that Barzarus is pointing out that most of the top pros over the last 15-30 years, spent alot of years playing, practicing and going on the road gambling before they got to a pro player level. Shannon Daulton is another good example of a natually talented player. At 15-16 years old, he was busting alot of top players. Just a thought on the subject. Good thread.

 

[5ballcharlie]

Hey I once heard danny deliberto once say that ralf souqet dosent have much natural talent that is why he plays so methodically. He said that ralf probably had to work harder at achieving success than earl strickland.

I think you have to have alot of heart determination and some good hand eye coordination to reach the top level
hope this helps

 

[NaClBandit]

Hey I once heard danny deliberto once say that ralf souqet dosent have much natural talent that is why he plays so methodically. He said that ralf probably had to work harder at achieving success than earl strickland.

hope this helps

I heard this also. He said that Ralf used to get whooped during his early years on tour but worked and worked until he became the force that he is today.

I watched an old BCA Open semifinal on ESPN Classic where Johnny Archer beat Pagulayan (maybe '95 or so). He said that when he first went pro he hardly ever practiced, he would just show up and finish in the money. But as he got a little older it became more and more necessary. He and Earl both seem to be natural talents. Some people just have the gift, others have to put in many more hours.

 

[TeddyJ]

I always hear about many top players that they have a talent. Do they really?

Yes.

My point here is how much talent do they have versus work they have done to get where they are?

As my sister always says, talent can only get you so far. You have to have both talent and an uncanny desire to improve with a lot of time to do it.

 

[BAZARUS]

I also think that one of the factors is age. Most players that are at the top right now started at their young age. I have no idea how their lives has been look like at their young age, but I imagine that as soon as they has been discovered they had many oportunities to stay in the game.
There are many strong players right now, but for variety of reasons they can't reach the top. Lots of them have jobs, familly etc., or other factors that can hold' em back. If someone like Mika Immonen practicing 6-8 hours a day I am sure he doesn't have a 9-5 job. As a matter of fact playing pool is his full time job. Many of us started to play pool as adults with their lives beeing set. I consider myself a struggling pool player mainly because of that. I started to play in my twenties and I was playing really good for the time when I was working in pool houses and pool was my job and life. Although now I have my own pool table it doesn't look that pretty. I have a damn job which takes a lots of time and there is not to much room left for practice. Working in a pool house is good, but it is a low income job. I know a lots of people that have been working in those places to improve their games but they had to quit because of the income factor. My final conclusion is, that to become a top pool player your only job is to be practicing pool whether you have talent or not!

 

[Roll-Off]

I also think that one of the factors is age. Most players that are at the top right now started at their young age. I have no idea how their lives has been look like at their young age, but I imagine that as soon as they has been discovered they had many oportunities to stay in the game.
There are many strong players right now, but for variety of reasons they can't reach the top. Lots of them have jobs, familly etc., or other factors that can hold' em back. If someone like Mika Immonen practicing 6-8 hours a day I am sure he doesn't have a 9-5 job. As a matter of fact playing pool is his full time job. Many of us started to play pool as adults with their lives beeing set. I consider myself a struggling pool player mainly because of that. I started to play in my twenties and I was playing really good for the time when I was working in pool houses and pool was my job and life. Although now I have my own pool table it doesn't look that pretty. I have a damn job which takes a lots of time and there is not to much room left for practice. Working in a pool house is good, but it is a low income job. I know a lots of people that have been working in those places to improve their games but they had to quit because of the income factor. My final conclusion is, that to become a top pool player your only job is to be practicing pool whether you have talent or not!

You're right about the job thing. Working and pool don't mix. I also think your pool game needs to grow around talent. People who learn to play from the best and have the talent/time, will eventually be the best players.

 

[satman]

I wonder where I rate

If I haven't heard of you, you're not an A+ player. Sorry to break the news to you. (You may be on your little 8-ball league, though). Keep dreaming.

Do you know me? I'm east of the Mississippi too. Not trying to start something. I just wonder if you really do know all the A+ players.

 

[Black-Balled]

...I also think your pool game needs to grow around talent...

I think that this is one of the most influential factors in the development of pool skills.
There is something called the 'fish tank theory'. Basic premise, as related to pool, you gotta see what the best players do in order to get to that level. YOu ain't gonna invent $h!7 that hasn't been done before.

 

[satman]

Remember this

I think this is a very interesting question, and one of the best threads here.

I do think sometimes that I don't have the talent for the game when I practice but don't improve.
Then I sat down and thought about all the other players I've played and that there wasn't a snigle one who could play decent and hadn't spent lots of time on the table.

It reminds me of a recent event, I would go to a pool hall for about a year, playing and practicing. I did reach a level where I could beat most of the players there (which isn't any kind of achievement since most were casual players) but I had noticed a bunch of 6-7 guys (and one gal) who were definitely above my level. I could play them and beat them sometimes, but they were clearly better players. So I went for a long time thinking that they have some talent, since I spent more time at that pool hall than them and I couldn't play at their level.

After a while I started playing at another pool hall, since it was offering very cheap practice table time. What did I see? The same 6-7 players playing there from dawn till dusk, and this is no exaggeration.

I know that one example doesn't prove anything, but when I think about every player I know, every single one plays in accordance with the time they've put in.

Of course it does matter what you do with that time, too. And if you have proper fundamentals.

It's not how much, it's how. It's not playing all day long every day with the same people who play at your level, it's playing better players, watching better players, and asking questions. A little bit at a time your game will progress. Usually so slowly that you hardly notice. There are people who hardly practice and play at a top rated speed. But most players who don't practice are in action or tournaments constantly. Sam

 

[satman]

I agree

Hey I once heard danny deliberto once say that ralf souqet dosent have much natural talent that is why he plays so methodically. He said that ralf probably had to work harder at achieving success than earl strickland.

I think you have to have alot of heart determination and some good hand eye coordination to reach the top level
hope this helps

Most of the players who play faster, have a little more natural talent. They play by instinct. They are however, in my opinion, more likely to make a position error than someone who plays like Ralf. Everyone will mishit a ball occasionally, but Ralf plans every single shot and position. He still has a tremendous talent, and that is his concentration. He is one very focused individual at the table. I know, he blasted me at Derby City last year. Sam

 

[BAZARUS]

But most players who don't practice are in action or tournaments constantly. Sam

Thats a very good observation. I have notice that to when I moved to Greenville a year ago. NOBODY here is a serious practicing player. There are tornaments every day in different places and thats about it. Most players I've talk to saying "I do not ever practice, I just play tournaments" and lots of them gambling as well. It is good to play in a bunch of tournaments or money games, but they really don't teach how to play, only how to win. During a practice time you make shots that you'd never play in a tournament or money game.

 

[Rude Dog]

You're right about the job thing. Working and pool don't mix. I also think your pool game needs to grow around talent. People who learn to play from the best and have the talent/time, will eventually be the best players.

Roll-Off, that post was by far your best post ever. I'm happy to see that. In the future, if I see a post by you like your previous types, as in nothing nice to say, I'll stay out of it because I now know that you are capable of saying things in a helpful manner. I apologize for interferring. Post on! Peace, John.

 

[Rude Dog]

Most of the players who play faster, have a little more natural talent. They play by instinct. They are however, in my opinion, more likely to make a position error than someone who plays like Ralf. Everyone will mishit a ball occasionally, but Ralf plans every single shot and position. He still has a tremendous talent, and that is his concentration. He is one very focused individual at the table. I know, he blasted me at Derby City last year. Sam

Hey satman, I haven't seen you post in awhile, are you doing okay? Peace, John.

 

[racefornine]

Talent

Mike Siegel came through my town at 17, split 2 sets w/touring pro Earl Herring.Earl was in his prime then.After that session Mike played the legendary Toby Sweet for six or eight hours ending dead even.Thats talent above hard work,in my opinion.

 

[satman]

Divorce does that

Hey satman, I haven't seen you post in awhile, are you doing okay? Peace, John.

When me and the ex were having problems, I retreated to the computer or my pool table and tried to avoid irritating her. She wanted to argue and I didn't. After the divorce, I started to play a little more and spent some time chasing the girls. Now I'm settling back down a little and concentrating on my game for the winter. You know, get up every day and do some drills and a hit a few racks. I'm self employed, so I get to play a little in the middle of the day too. Working on some things for Derby City. I'm going to have a great winter. Getting ready to play some straight pool with Willie. Never really played any of that. I stopped in and read a few things now and then and recently posted a few things. Now i'm ready to live pool again. Peace to you too John. Sam

 

[rackmsuckr]

You dumbass. Efren is a top pro. Below that is pro, then shortstop, then A+, A, A-, and so on. Bazarus is a strong player, people on this board know him.

It must be where you come from. In our area, ratings are Pro, A, B, and C. With pluses and minuses. I have never heard of shortstop before. And the Canadians have their own rating system.

Linda