Do you think 9-ball would be better or worse if a mandatory push out after the break became a standard rule?

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve seen this discussed before and I’m curious what the game would end up being like if this became normalized. I think safety breaks would become fairly standard since pushing out has you at a disadvantage. Do you think it would ruin the game? It does pretty much solve the issue everyone has with racks. No more needing to rack with the 9 on the spot, or add a break box, or require that two balls pass the headstring (a silly rule IMO), and likely less time players spend on racking or arguing about the rack, etc. I’m not sure if I’m for it though. What are your thoughts?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It would not be 9-ball.

It would be a different game.

Why do people constantly want to change the rules?

It was bad enough when they switched to one foul and BIH, then people want alternate break, and now you are advocating pushing out after the break.

Let’s add push after the break and when you get to the 9 ball you have to kick it in three rails to the pocket the 8 ball was made in on the game before.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why not just break and first shot with no other stipulation. You could further require all pocketed balls to spot up for the breaker to do with as he pleases. Any balls pocketed after that stay down including the 9. If other balls are still on the table, play continues to the last ball which at this point counts only for the next break. 9 is only scored if it is the last ball on the table.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
It would not be 9-ball.

It would be a different game.

Why do people constantly want to change the rules?

It was bad enough when they switched to one foul and BIH, then people want alternate break, and now you are advocating pushing out after the break.

Let’s add push after the break and when you get to the 9 ball you have to kick it in three rails to the pocket the 8 ball was made in on the game before.
I’m with you...if somebody doesn’t like 9-ball, don’t play it and don’t watch it.
....I would go for pro level playing more 10-ball, though.
 

YoungAtHeart

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO keep it simple for the viewing public.
Break from the spot every time.
And do way with the 'push-out' all together.
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
9 ball allows the player to completely dominate when they are executing. Alternating break or mandatory push outs take away from the offensive nature of the game.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just play 10ball. Call shot(no call safe) w/ the ability to combo/carom the 10b to win is way we play. I don't like call-safe or 10b last. Or just play old-school 10b with standard 9b rules. When you get to higher levels of players 9b has become kind of a joke.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Gold Member
Silver Member
Now its a run out game with ball in hand after fouls. I'd like to see it played under some of old rules again. Ball in hand anywhere on the table nahh.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
...gallatory maybe,
but, mandatory, the standard rule?
that's not working out!
...sounds and reads like one entity for control.

I'll take a chance and assume,
that if,
they had pulled a chain for a black curtain to surround the table at the Mosconi Cup, then were told of the outcome, all would be acceptable.


..umm, scratch that,


I'm liking the 9 & 10 ball game having more of a qualified win, like,
the 9 or 10 pocketed for the win must have the majority of witnessed votes balls made, within one rack, to be validated as a win.

and, for added pleasure, using a fat rack, ugly duck style, a good hit on the one,
calling a ball to be pocketed, on the break, to garner a pass or to hold the table for another shot...
...simpletons like simple things.

..want to rack it up?
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...gallatory maybe,
but, mandatory, the standard rule?
that's not working out!
...sounds and reads like one entity for control.

I'll take a chance and assume,
that if,
they had pulled a chain for a black curtain to surround the table at the Mosconi Cup, then were told of the outcome, all would be acceptable.


..umm, scratch that,


I'm liking the 9 & 10 ball game having more of a qualified win, like,
the 9 or 10 pocketed for the win must have the majority of witnessed votes balls made, within one rack, to be validated as a win.

and, for added pleasure, using a fat rack, ugly duck style, a good hit on the one,
calling a ball to be pocketed, on the break, to garner a pass or to hold the table for another shot...
...simpletons like simple things.

..want to rack it up?
WTF??????????????????
 

surlytempo

Member
This has come up in conversations with different pros and tournament staff, some are in favor of it, some are not. There are fair arguments on both sides. Where pros that tend to favor a mandatory push-out after the break approach it from is how costly traveling for tournaments already is and they just want an equal opportunity to contest each rack.

Does it change the game? Yeah, of course. I don't think a mandatory push-out is necessary for smaller or regional tournaments, but for major Open tournaments it's a worthwhile consideration. Alternate break was an attempt to provide both players with equal table time, but fell short of the mark in a number of ways. It's not worked out terribly, but it's not ideal.

A mandatory push out adds a level of strategic consideration to both the break and the opening shot, which isn't terrible, but, the drawback being we're not going to see players string together some great runs. But, that's not to say we can't see that at some regional events. At an Open+ event though? Definitely think a mandatory push-out after the break provides both players with an opportunity to negotiate each rack.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Sounds a little bit like ‘everybody gets a prize’ thinking.
This has come up in conversations with different pros and tournament staff, some are in favor of it, some are not. There are fair arguments on both sides. Where pros that tend to favor a mandatory push-out after the break approach it from is how costly traveling for tournaments already is and they just want an equal opportunity to contest each rack.

Does it change the game? Yeah, of course. I don't think a mandatory push-out is necessary for smaller or regional tournaments, but for major Open tournaments it's a worthwhile consideration. Alternate break was an attempt to provide both players with equal table time, but fell short of the mark in a number of ways. It's not worked out terribly, but it's not ideal.

A mandatory push out adds a level of strategic consideration to both the break and the opening shot, which isn't terrible, but, the drawback being we're not going to see players string together some great runs. But, that's not to say we can't see that at some regional events. At an Open+ event though? Definitely think a mandatory push-out after the break provides both players with an opportunity to negotiate each rack.
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maha

from way back when
Silver Member
they have changed the game , equipment, and table conditions many times already. it isnt the same 9 ball game played as before. if newer to the game you may think its the normal game but it isnt.

and also having someone stand there and fuss over the rack he is giving himself for a full minute or two ruins the viewers experience, and now forces the opponent to do the same if he wants to compete equally.
 

JustPlay

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look how 9 ball has changed after a ball was pocketed, then the cue ball was fouled, the incoming player had the pocketed ball(s) placed on the break spot and ball-in-hand behind the head string only. Now its ball in hand on the lowest numbered ball any place on the table. Think of how many matches and championships have would have been decided without those rules back then! The rules in 9ball were that one could push-out after the break...
 

pab

Center ball can do it all
Silver Member
Just play 10ball. Call shot(no call safe) w/ the ability to combo/carom the 10b to win is way we play. I don't like call-safe or 10b last. Or just play old-school 10b with standard 9b rules. When you get to higher levels of players 9b has become kind of a joke.
100% agreed!

If you wanted to do the pushout thing, maybe in a league it would be okay. Again, "maybe." But at the pro level, forget it. Like Danny D. says about the push, "these players are at such a high level, where are you going to push to that the other player doesn't know what to do?"

Play 10-ball and a lot that crap goes away.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I don't see the need to punish a player for striking a good break. Alternate break still allows the stronger player to win, and provides equal opportunity for the opponent.

Where exactly did the alternate break format fall short...?
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Like Danny D. says about the push, "these players are at such a high level, where are you going to push to that the other player doesn't know what to do?"
...but oddly enough, more often than not, a push is given back to the shooter.
 
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