Do you use a strict diamond system?

Spot on the wall

Spot on the wall works great for me. When playing on a new table, I always shoot the CB a few times to find the specific "reference shot" for that specific table for 2 and 3 rail kicks. If the rails on the table are decent, that one reference point as it relates to the diamonds will be the same from the other 3 corners. If I need a 2 or 3 rail kick, I will line up that table's reference shot, find the spot on the wall or some other object, and then aim the CB at that spot and shoot with running english. I have also discovered that my 2 rail spot on the wall can also be used to kick hangers in the side pocket if I aim at it from opposite corner. All this probably sounds stupid if you've never tried spot on the wall but it works very good for me.
 
Mostly I use "feel" for banks, kicks I guess because I'm too dumb or too lazy to spend the time and energy to learn the diamond system. Had a guy who was supposed to be a fair banker help me with this problem. His name was Vernon Elliott. He asked what method I was using to determine banking and kicking and I told him I just used feel. Never forget his reply: "Hell you can feel your ass! They put diamonds on the rails to give you a map to use and you tell me you like braile better"? I took that to mean he didn't recommend "feel".
 
maybe not STRICT but definitely i calculate first then adjust by feel and how the table plays
 
philly said:
Anyone else play like this or do you use a strict diamond system?
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I do not think it is possible to use a "strict" banking system.
Depending on the spin imparted to the CB, the CB will come off the rails differently.
Depending on how the CB comes off the first rail will influence how it comes off the second rail.
In addition, there is a gentle arcing forward due to the natural roll of the CB as it comes off a rail.

So, just like Ghost Ball aiming technique is only a starting point for a cut shot, Rail systems are only a starting point for a kick shot. Once you get started, there are a myriad of compensations that have to be applied.
 
MitchAlsup said:
I do not think it is possible to use a "strict" banking system.
Depending on the spin imparted to the CB, the CB will come off the rails differently.
Depending on how the CB comes off the first rail will influence how it comes off the second rail.
In addition, there is a gentle arcing forward due to the natural roll of the CB as it comes off a rail.

So, just like Ghost Ball aiming technique is only a starting point for a cut shot, Rail systems are only a starting point for a kick shot. Once you get started, there are a myriad of compensations that have to be applied.
Click to expand...

VERY good post! This is why ANY TOP 3 C player will choose to play a 'Bank or Cushion first' shot as ONLY a LAST resort!

Excluding, 'tiki's, and short 2cushion first' shots
 
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The Diamond System Is......

The Diamond System is never wrong as long as you understand the type of stroke needed on the cue ball and you remember that the first two diamond values change for short rail & long rail kicks and 3 rail kicks are entirely different plus it uses subtraction instead of multiplication like the one rail kick calculation.

The thing is the Diamond System is only a guide and keep in mind that your aim point is never the diamonds. The Diamond System is only a tool....a pretty darn accurate guide I might add but nonetheless you have to judge your shots.

The diamonds really make it easy to get a fast read on the track to use to "pocket" the object ball, not just hit it. It's startling how many shots actually result in a successfully pocketed object ball but the real beauty is avoiding to give your opponent ball in hand because he hooked you.

The Diamond System makes it easy to get at least a legal hit but the system is designed to sink the object ball. I played today and pocketed at least a dozen really hard kick shots over the course of 40 games of 10 ball.......and 4 of them were the 10 ball where my opponent thought he left me safe.

Learn to master the Diamond System because it really is your best friend.

Matt B.
 
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Lately I've been getting back into Tor Lowrys kicking system. The guys I play with almost always can hook me and I need to kick my kicking game up a notch or two.

However, as it stands I'm very very confident playing three rail kicks all over the table, same thing with two rail kicks off the short rail first, and can 'hit' object balls one rail when I'm not completely hooked.

I do need to get better at hitting a part of the ball instead of just kicking to make contact.

P.S. The Zero X kicking system is the best I've seen.
Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2
 
I used too use one now I know the rails so well kinda just eye it I used zero x system for whille
 
Bavafongoul said:
The Diamond System is never wrong as long as you understand the type of stroke needed on the cue ball and you remember that the first two diamond values change for short rail & long rail kicks and 3 rail kicks are entirely different plus it uses subtraction instead of multiplication like the one rail kick calculation.

The thing is the Diamond System is only a guide and keep in mind that your aim point is never the diamonds. The Diamond System is only a tool....a pretty darn accurate guide I might add but nonetheless you have to judge your shots.

The diamonds really make it easy to get a fast read on the track to use to "pocket" the object ball, not just hit it. It's startling how many shots actually result in a successfully pocketed object ball but the real beauty is avoiding to give your opponent ball in hand because he hooked you.

The Diamond System makes it easy to get at least a legal hit but the system is designed to sink the object ball. I played today and pocketed at least a dozen really hard kick shots over the course of 40 games of 10 ball.......and 4 of them were the 10 ball where my opponent thought he left me safe.

Learn to master the Diamond System because it really is your best friend.

Matt B.
Click to expand...

In bold is not true. Depends on angle of attack to the rail or some other adjustment or system being used.
 
3kushn said:
In bold is not true
edit note by me the statement below is what 3kushn was referring to
.The thing is the Diamond System is only a guide and keep in mind that your aim point is never the diamonds. ... from matts post
Depends on angle of attack to the rail or some other adjustment or system being used.
Click to expand...
i agree in bold is not true
i would say almost ALL my diamond systems use the diamonds as aim points
 
bbb said:
i agree in bold is not true
i would say almost ALL my diamond systems use the diamonds as aim points
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Like I said it depends on the system and or depends on where your CB is positioned.
With the Corner 5 for instance the general rule is on long angle shots aim to the diamond. Short angle shots are opposite the diamond.

This is just one of the adjustments considered for the Corner 5 System. Also depending on where the CB starts the 3rd rail connecting diamond shifts from say #2 to the corner. For instance #1-1/2 can connect to the corner when you're starting close to the 1st long rail or even #1 connects to the corner if really close to the long and in the corner.
 
bbb said:
i agree in bold is not true
i would say almost ALL my diamond systems use the diamonds as aim points
Click to expand...
Aiming at the diamonds is a handy way to adjust one-rail banks/kicks that naturally go a little long because of the rolling ball curving after rebound. The adjustment is naturally larger for wider angles, so it matches the tendency of rolling balls to rebound longer for wider angles (compare the shots below to see what I mean - yellow line = mirror angle; white line = aim line).

This "system" of adjusting mirror angles for one-rail kicks works almost perfectly on the tables at my local pool hall, and can be tweaked to work as well on any table.

pj
chgo

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In my view, using a system is better than just a guess. I use the diamond system mainly for kicking. Of course every table plays different, some play longer, some play shorter on kicks and banks so you must first determine how the table you are playing on plays. I have found the diamond system for 1, 2, and 3 rails to be quite accurate once you determine how the table plays.
 
Nonsense......The Aim Point Is Not The Diamonds

Absolutely wrong about aiming at the diamonds......you misunderstand the system if you believe that.......the diamonds are for measurement purposes....assigning & calculating formula arithmetic values which in turn translate into aim points on the rail grooves.....not the diamonds which shouldn't even be discernible to your eyes if you remain low in your shooting stance. Staying low is helpful for kicks shots, as well for banks. But you do not aim for the diamonds especially since your extend the lines beyond the actual t table & rails.....your aim point is on the rail grooves........not the actual diamonds.

Matt B.
 
It's funny to me when someone uses the diamond system or whatever they call it, specially when he keep going back and forth and measuring every diamond angle, and then takes 1-2mins, then go and shoot and he misses the ball completely.

I mean when you do this, while using the diamond system, what does that tell you exactly? That what my opponent do, he uses diamond system, goes around for a looooong time, taking his measures, then BOm he doesn't even touch the object ball, I mean when this happen you should re-evaluate what you're doing.

The diamond system is OK but you need to understand the cueball speed & the type of stroke you are shooting the ball with & the English applied. taking all these 3 factors into consideration will change the cueball path completely so with that said, this is why diamond system is kinda bad.

Always go by feel, Efren Reyes the best kicker the universe has ever seen and he always goes with feel & understanding the table, he understands cushions, he knows exactly the cushion & speed & English, and he execute perfect kicks.

Thats all I'm gona say for now.
 
asbani said:
It's funny to me when someone uses the diamond system or whatever they call it, specially when he keep going back and forth and measuring every diamond angle, and then takes 1-2mins, then go and shoot and he misses the ball completely.

I mean when you do this, while using the diamond system, what does that tell you exactly? That what my opponent do, he uses diamond system, goes around for a looooong time, taking his measures, then BOm he doesn't even touch the object ball, I mean when this happen you should re-evaluate what you're doing.

The diamond system is OK but you need to understand the cueball speed & the type of stroke you are shooting the ball with & the English applied. taking all these 3 factors into consideration will change the cueball path completely so with that said, this is why diamond system is kinda bad.

Always go by feel, Efren Reyes the best kicker the universe has ever seen and he always goes with feel & understanding the table, he understands cushions, he knows exactly the cushion & speed & English, and he execute perfect kicks.

Thats all I'm gona say for now.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't take that long to use a diamond system. Most are just a matter of counting diamonds based on where the cue ball and object ball is. In 20-30 seconds, you should be able to make the calculation, determine if the path is clear and get down to shoot.
 
Imotv8u said:
Spot on the wall works great for me. When playing on a new table, I always shoot the CB a few times to find the specific "reference shot" for that specific table for 2 and 3 rail kicks. If the rails on the table are decent, that one reference point as it relates to the diamonds will be the same from the other 3 corners. If I need a 2 or 3 rail kick, I will line up that table's reference shot, find the spot on the wall or some other object, and then aim the CB at that spot and shoot with running english. I have also discovered that my 2 rail spot on the wall can also be used to kick hangers in the side pocket if I aim at it from opposite corner. All this probably sounds stupid if you've never tried spot on the wall but it works very good for me.
Click to expand...

Spot on the wall is a handy tool..... No bout adoubt it
 
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