Do you use an aiming system or go by feel?

[lfigueroa]

Tell you what fellas. You knockers have me all obsessed again. It's been so nice to have a year without you. I am not going to post in this thread any longer and hopefully that will allow you to calm down and get your panties untwisted.

Dear readers, any that are left, don't let yourselves be made afraid to try the various aiming systems out there. You can ALWAYS go back to what you were doing, feel, gb, or whatever it was. The worst thing that can happen is you spend some table time learning what doesn't help you in your pool game.

The best thing is you find a better way to aim that strengthens your love of the game and inspires you to play more.

No. You or another fanatic will just start another thread.

Somewhat obviously, you have "run of the house" privileges or this thread would have been whacked or moved a long time ago.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sluan]

You need to read about his aiming system in context. "Advanced Snooker"

Joe Davis was teaching a student and observed that after potting the black time after time he suddenly missed it.

He examined his students mechanics and could find no fault. He asked what his student was aiming at and his student didn't have a clear explanation.

He went on to say that he must be an odd duck indeed because he always had a definite target. He goes on to explain his method.

It involves placement of a ghost ball but that is NOT the target. The target is actually the AREA of the object ball eclipsed by the ghost ball.

I read this explanation when I was about 16 and still use it today.

I pocket balls better than 99.9% of players alive today as a result.

It is obvious from the fact that JB just ignored my post that he knows nothing about playing pool.

Bill S.

I think this is very similar to the aiming method (hesitate to call it a "system") I developed naturally on my own over the beginning years of playing, and is what I have been using ever since.

Interested to find the book to read if I have chance.

 

[Dan White]

My first comment is that the shot in question is in fact set up as close to a 30 degree angle as possible which is the conventional 1/2 ball shot in the quarters system and it has been defined that way for a hundred years. My intentions were to convey a half ball aim....and it will still be the same in a hundred more years.

At times, during demos I stun a lot of balls.....creates a lot grabbing....sometimes I do compensate for stun. I have trained myself to do that.

I can shoot the shots with finesse or draw and the balls will split the pocket minus any rolling of the hand.

Stan Shuffett

But Stan, take a look at the image below. It shows the cue ball and the object ball in the positions you set up on the table. Trust me for the moment that I drew the diagram correctly. The half ball hit directs the OB along the 30 degree line and into the foot rail. Of course you have to add in some throw, which is what the other dashed line represents. So your application of either right english or pushing the cue ball to the right is not only compensating for additional throw from stun, but also from the incorrect set up. If you had the right "edge" of the OB lined up with the center of the CB, instead of having both CB and OB centers lined up, then you'd be on target to hit the pocket. I haven't diagrammed that to see exactly, though.

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[Sloppy Pockets]

lol

What's the over/under on this? 1 day? 5 minutes?

pj <- I vote for a John Barton Vanity Subforum
chgo

View attachment 93055

Poor English! finally has to settle for second place in a posting competition. He must be beside himself, but now that Barton's out he can post all night and maybe catch back up, so all is not lost yet. As of now you are only in fourth place, Pat, with a measly 72 posts in a single thread. Definitely not dedicated to pool like they are, it's pretty obvious now.

Here's the final 8 going into tomorrow's quarterfinals. Looks like the same ol' players we always see in the money in these threads. Lou had a respectable 39 posts, but he will not finish in the money this time. Stan had 21 posts, but he really should have been disqualified since he was only on here to defend himself and not to disrupt things like the real haters.

And Sam Lambert (the OP)? He finished way back in 18th place with only 14 posts. He'll never make pro in five years that way.

 

[stan shuffett]

But Stan, take a look at the image below. It shows the cue ball and the object ball in the positions you set up on the table. Trust me for the moment that I drew the diagram correctly. The half ball hit directs the OB along the 30 degree line and into the foot rail. Of course you have to add in some throw, which is what the other dashed line represents. So your application of either right english or pushing the cue ball to the right is not only compensating for additional throw from stun, but also from the incorrect set up. If you had the right "edge" of the OB lined up with the center of the CB, instead of having both CB and OB centers lined up, then you'd be on target to hit the pocket. I haven't diagrammed that to see exactly, though.

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I set up the 30 degree angle with a BAT trainer.... The lesson I presented is not dependent upon a perfect 30 degree angle.

What I set up is a 30 degree angle or very very near.

The point of the lesson is: that because a shot has a conventional CTE or near CTE relation, a 1/2 tip pivot is still used for the category of shots commensurate with a 30 degree angle.

The question has been asked many times. In CTE PRO ONE, do you pivot for half ball shots?

Stan Shuffett

 

[Patrick Johnson]

[re Joe Davis' aiming system]

The target is actually the AREA of the object ball eclipsed by the ghost ball.

The CB/OB "eclipse" or overlap is the basis of many aiming methods (fractions, double overlap, etc.) - naturally, since it's what's actually there to see. I suspect it's involved in everybody's aiming in one way or another.

There are plenty of new aiming systems today. You need to find one that conforms to the laws of Physics, not some myth, and stick with it.

I agree that's ideal, but...

Pool is about confidence and if you don't have confidence that you are aiming correctly you won't have the courage to execute the shot under stressful conditions.

Since aiming is done almost entirely subconsciously, out of the player's immediate control, confidence is huge. It doesn't surprise me that some players prefer a good "story" about how aiming is done - one that reassures them aiming can be more conscious and they can be more in control.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Poor English! finally has to settle for second place in a posting competition. He must be beside himself, but now that Barton's out he can post all night and maybe catch back up, so all is not lost yet. As of now you are only in fourth place, Pat, with a measly 72 posts in a single thread. Definitely not dedicated to pool like they are, it's pretty obvious now.

Here's the final 8 going into tomorrow's quarterfinals. Looks like the same ol' players we always see in the money in these threads. Lou had a respectable 39 posts, but he will not finish in the money this time. Stan had 21 posts, but he really should have been disqualified since he was only on here to defend himself and not to disrupt things like the real haters.

And Sam Lambert (the OP)? He finished way back in 18th place with only 14 posts. He'll never make pro in five years that way.

lol!

Hilarious.

pj
chgo

 

[(((Satori)))]

I set up the 30 degree angle with a BAT trainer.... The lesson I presented is not dependent upon a perfect 30 degree angle.

What I set up is a 30 degree angle or very very near.

The point of the lesson is: that because a shot has a conventional CTE or near CTE relation, a 1/2 tip pivot is still used for the category of shots commensurate with a 30 degree angle.

The question has been asked many times. In CTE PRO ONE, do you pivot for half ball shots?

Stan Shuffett

You use the BAT trainer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afqBEHevjLo

I was going to recommend that to Sam.


(I'm only joking)

 

[bstroud]

I set up the 30 degree angle with a BAT trainer.... The lesson I presented is not dependent upon a perfect 30 degree angle.

What I set up is a 30 degree angle or very very near.

The point of the lesson is: that because a shot has a conventional CTE or near CTE relation, a 1/2 tip pivot is still used for the category of shots commensurate with a 30 degree angle.

The question has been asked many times. In CTE PRO ONE, do you pivot for half ball shots?

Stan Shuffett

Stan,

I looked carefully at the second video of the shot that was posted and it clearly shows that you take the butt of the cue inside just before you stroke forward.

This clearly results in the cue ball taking a path to your right.

Why do you want to line up one way and shoot another? Pool is complicated enough already.

I'm sure you have a reasonable explanation.

I am only curious because at 74 I have spent the last year forcing myself to use a straight back and straight through stroke in order to play better on todays' tight pockets. It is finally working and the results are amazing.

Bill S.

 

[lfigueroa]

Poor English! finally has to settle for second place in a posting competition. He must be beside himself, but now that Barton's out he can post all night and maybe catch back up, so all is not lost yet. As of now you are only in fourth place, Pat, with a measly 72 posts in a single thread. Definitely not dedicated to pool like they are, it's pretty obvious now.

Here's the final 8 going into tomorrow's quarterfinals. Looks like the same ol' players we always see in the money in these threads. Lou had a respectable 39 posts, but he will not finish in the money this time. Stan had 21 posts, but he really should have been disqualified since he was only on here to defend himself and not to disrupt things like the real haters.

And Sam Lambert (the OP)? He finished way back in 18th place with only 14 posts. He'll never make pro in five years that way.

I feel like such a shirker.

Lou Figueroa

 

[stan shuffett]

Stan,

I looked carefully at the second video of the shot that was posted and it clearly shows that you take the butt of the cue inside just before you stroke forward.

This clearly results in the cue ball taking a path to your right.

Why do you want to line up one way and shoot another? Pool is complicated enough already.

I'm sure you have a reasonable explanation.

I am only curious because at 74 I have spent the last year forcing myself to use a straight back and straight through stroke in order to play better on todays' tight pockets. It is finally working and the results are amazing.

Bill S.

I am glad some of you have the propensity to sift through my YouTube videos and find slow motion imperfections in stroke.......

Any time anyone wants to visit and shoot some shots with the goal of stroking straight through the cue ball for zero angle shots, then I 'd be happy to video the session and put it on YouTube.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

I set up the 30 degree angle with a BAT trainer.... The lesson I presented is not dependent upon a perfect 30 degree angle.

What I set up is a 30 degree angle or very very near.

The point of the lesson is: that because a shot has a conventional CTE or near CTE relation, a 1/2 tip pivot is still used for the category of shots commensurate with a 30 degree angle.

The question has been asked many times. In CTE PRO ONE, do you pivot for half ball shots?

Stan Shuffett

Never saw that BAT trainer before. It's interesting. But about the half tip pivot -- isn't the bridge hand supposed to be offset from center ball by that half tip so that you can pivot to center?

 

[stan shuffett]

The CB/OB "eclipse" or overlap is the basis of many aiming methods (fractions, double overlap, etc.) - naturally, since it's what's actually there to see. I suspect it's involved in everybody's aiming in one way or another.


I agree that's ideal, but...


Since aiming is done almost entirely subconsciously, out of the player's immediate control, confidence is huge. It doesn't surprise me that some players prefer a good "story" about how aiming is done - one that reassures them aiming can be more conscious and they can be more in control.

pj
chgo

You can debate me on my story at a poolroom right between us .but you will not and it is apparent why. You would walk out with your tail tucked between your legs.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Never saw that BAT trainer before. It's interesting. But about the half tip pivot -- isn't the bridge hand supposed to be offset from center ball by that half tip so that you can pivot to center?

Since you are working to Know CTE PRO ONE, please describe the center cue ball that is used for prepivot aligning and how it is derived.



Stan Shuffett

 

[lfigueroa]

Since you Know CTE PRO ONE, please describe the center cue ball that is used for prepivot aligning and how it is derived.



Stan Shuffett

Stan going all Dennis Hopper "Pop quiz, hot shot" on us. Cool.

Lou Figueroa
gonna fire me up
some popcorn

 

[bstroud]

Stan,

I still don't understand why you would want to pivot the cue instead of realigning your stance and shooting straight through?

In the end any aiming system is only good for training your conscious mind.

When you play your best you play in your subconscious mind.

Bill S.

 

[stan shuffett]

Stan,

I still don't understand why you would want to pivot the cue instead of realigning your stance and shooting straight through?

In the end any aiming system is only good for training your conscious mind.

When you play your best you play in your subconscious mind.

Bill S.

Bill,

The 1/2 tip pivot is a part of Basic CTE training.

You could watch me play for a day and I doubt that you would ever realize that I play with a pivoted cue.

I can not go in detail here but if you are ever in my area after my book release I'd be happy to show you the whole works.

Thank you for your interest!

Stan Shuffett

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You can debate me on my story at a poolroom right between us .but you will not and it is apparent why. You would walk out with your tail tucked between your legs.

Stan Shuffett

We've been debating right here, right out in public, all along, Stan. According to you it hasn't hurt the popularity of your system, and I wouldn't want it to. I don't want to turn anybody away from it if it's best for them - and I believe it can be best for some. But I think they should be able to make informed decisions about that, and that includes hearing other views about the system's claims.

Especially since this is a discussion forum, not a billboard.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Easy Half Ball Shot Setup

The half ball hit directs the OB along the 30 degree line and into the foot rail.

stan shuffett:
I set up the 30 degree angle with a BAT trainer

Dan and Stan (and whoever else),

For a simple no-special-equipment way to set up a perfect half ball shot to the corner, see the pics below.

In the top pic the cue ball's edge is on the centerline (at any distance). The red 3 ball is on the intersection of the centerline and the 3rd diamond from the end rail. The 1 and 2 are frozen to the 3 on the centerline. The 1 ball is the object ball for the shot (after removing the 2 and 3).

For a cross-table half ball shot (bottom pic) the CB is placed on the opposite side of the frozen balls (closest to the 3 ball). Again, the 1 ball is the object ball for the shot (after removing the 2 and 3).

pj
chgo

(Note: The 30-degree angle assumes no OB throw.)

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View attachment 28882

 

[Dan White]

Since you are working to Know CTE PRO ONE, please describe the center cue ball that is used for prepivot aligning and how it is derived.



Stan Shuffett

Thank you for editing that question because I was just in the shower literally scratching my head trying to figure out what you were asking.

I've gleaned what I can through these forums and Youtube, obviously not having ordered your DVD. I understand that you first establish your visuals, be it ETA/CTE or ETB/CTE and so on. When you have done that, you have locked in your visuals and that defines the left and right edges of the cue ball, which allows you to identify the vertical axis of the cue ball that you are going to pivot to. Basically, an inside pivot will thin a shot that would otherwise be a fat hit, and an outside pivot does the opposite. In thinking more about it, I think the bridge hand will be in the exact same spot whether you shoot with CTE aiming or just the standard way. I haven't seen or read that yet anywhere, but it makes sense. In the end, the cue has to end up in the same spot. With CTE you are really putting your head in the "wrong" place and are using the pivots to make the cue ball go in the correct line. In your video on shooting straight shots and what a "half ball pivot" was, you said that pro players stand with an offset and then fix that offset by pivoting the cue inside or outside. That's what I mean by putting your head/vision in the "wrong place"... the offset as you call it.

I have no problem with that aspect of the system, though I may have some things wrong. What I have great problems understanding is the same thing everybody else is confused about, but that's another subject.