Does anyone call a miscue hit a foul if the ball lifts off the table?

[iusedtoberich]

Besides the Sanjin call, there was another match where the same call was made in the past year. It might have been with Shaw. I vaguely recall one player got called for the foul. Then a few games later, the second player had a similar miscue, and was not called on the foul, and the first player was not happy. It was discussed here when it happened.

It might have been the same event where all the players were losing the lag for adjusting the CB starting point.

 

[tomatoshooter]

If your ferrule touches a ball or makes that nasty sound then it’s a foul in my opinion

I've had some shots where I heard that click but the cue ball went on the proper path, or at least reasonably close to it. If I'm playing rotation, most miscues don't result in a legal shot so it's almost irrelevant, but in 8 ball I may make legal contact.

The call on Sanjin was strange. I'm under the impression that it's a foul to intentionally scoop jump a ball but I have no reason to believe that he was trying to jump the ball. If he had miscued on the side and the cue ball bounced off the rail but made good contact would the ref have called the foul? He seemed to take exception to the jump, but not specifically the miscue. I'll say that I wouldn't have called the foul because I understand the rule to be that unintentional miscues are not fouls, but this is a rare situation that Sanjin made legal contact after the accidental jump. Then again, as few errors as the pros make, a call like this is a big deal.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Besides the Sanjin call, there was another match where the same call was made in the past year. It might have been with Shaw. I vaguely recall one player got called for the foul. Then a few games later, the second player had a similar miscue, and was not called on the foul, and the first player was not happy. It was discussed here when it happened.

It might have been the same event where all the players were losing the lag for adjusting the CB starting point.

Was this also a jump miscue? The Sanjin call is the only one I have seen so if like to see when other refs make similar calls.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Was this also a jump miscue? The Sanjin call is the only one I have seen so if like to see when other refs make similar calls.

I'm sure someone will remember the thread it was on and link it. I think JJ might have been one of the commentators. It was either a MR or a Predator event. I think one of the shots "may" have been an attempted jump that resulted in a miscue.

Again, these are pro events, not bangers trying a scoop shot. Stuff that was never called as a foul is now being called a foul by the top of the heap European trained refs.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Here is another one, same ref, called a foul. Frozen to the rail miscue this time. Post #29 in the below thread. (Link should take you right there).

BAD CALLS in Pro Matches - Unintentional Miscue SCOOP SHOTS

FYI, I just posted a new video that shows two recent examples of bad calls made in pro pool matches, discusses miscue scoop shot fouls, and makes a recommendation for a rule change: As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[FranCrimi]

So lets play along....if you miscue unintentionally and hit your object ball but nothing hit the rail.

That's a foul right? Or is there some rule strictly for miscue. Such as if you miscue then it is ok that nothing touches a rail?

LOL

Of course that's a foul. Rules aren't just arbitrary. They are supposed to have a consistency and logic to them.

 

[Mensabum]

I notice nobody calls this and from my understanding, it is always a foul even if it hits the correct object ball.

A miscue where the ball gets off the table is a scoop jump.

Maybe just my neck of the woods. A lot of people at my pool room continue play like its a missed shot.

Sometimes the OB falls in the pocket and the miscue player keeps shooting. Even tho we now know it's a foul. Thanks to Doc and MR that is. Lol

 

[Mensabum]

Absolutely BAD call. Referees need to study the INTENT of these rules.

Why jack up like that on a draw shot?? Even being that close to the OB?? I could get all the way down table without jacking up that high. Why did this player need to?? Just curious.

 

[Rocket354]

I've called a foul when someone who was jacked up about half way and attempting to draw miscued and the cue ball deflected off the ball in front of it jumped up and actually rolled down his shaft.

His response: "what?? miscues are fouls now??" No, but that one was...

 

[straightline]

In snooker they say, "foul stroke". Much as I despise rule nazis, can a miscue be anything else?

 

[tomatoshooter]

Here is another one, same ref, called a foul. Frozen to the rail miscue this time. Post #29 in the below thread. (Link should take you right there).

BAD CALLS in Pro Matches - Unintentional Miscue SCOOP SHOTS

FYI, I just posted a new video that shows two recent examples of bad calls made in pro pool matches, discusses miscue scoop shot fouls, and makes a recommendation for a rule change: As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments...

forums.azbilliards.com

That one was a pretty clear multiple hit. I'm okay with that being called a foul. I've done similar where the ball ended up stuck under my shaft. No need to call the miscue, I didn't make legal contact.

Why jack up like that on a draw shot?? Even being that close to the OB?? I could get all the way down table without jacking up that high. Why did this player need to?? Just curious.

I think he just hit the ball poorly because he was stretched out. I do that a bit.

 

[gregcantrall]

Jump shots are not allowed in snooker, however there are shots where the cueball and object ball go airborne within the rules.
Snooker players can cause the cueball to jump after contact with the object ball to clear the pack rather than splatter it. Well here's an explanation of snooker rules. Snooker jump shot rules
Mike Massey demonstrates the use of slight hops to make balls that appear to be blocked. He says the balls are made of shrinkaflex and shrink to fit if you hit it hard enough.

 

[dr_dave]

This is covered in the rules. Here is what one official rule set says.

8.18 Miscue​

A miscue occurs when the cue tip slides off the cue ball possibly due to a contact that is too eccentric or to insufficient chalk on the tip. It is usually accompanied by a sharp sound and evidenced by a discoloration of the tip. Although some miscues involve contact of the side of the cue stick with the cue ball, unless such contact is clearly visible, it is assumed not to have occurred. A scoop shot, in which the cue tip contacts the playing surface and the cue ball at the same time and this causes the cue ball to rise off the cloth, is treated like a miscue. Note that intentional miscues are covered by 6.17 Unsportsmanlike Conduct (c).

For those interested, various types of "scoop shots" (including the case where the tip hits the CB and table at the same time for a non-sliding-contact single hit with no secondary contact) are demonstrated and shown in super slow motion here:

scoop shot resource page​

 

[Mensabum]

I

Was this also a jump miscue? The Sanjin call is the only one I have seen so if like to see when other refs make similar calls.

I think the way sanjin jacked up threw that ref bcuz he couldn't figure out what the shooter was trying to do, so to save his own ass, called the foul. Just a thot.

 

[jtompilot]

I guess we need high-speed camera’s at every table to see if the ferrule hit the CB

 

[Mensabum]

Ditto for me too ,never knew i miscue to be called a foul .

Chuckg

Old school common courtesy applies in our games. Bad enuf the poor bastard miscued, BIH after would be too much imo for our friendly matchups.
I'm not speaking for money or tournament play. Just local hall stuff.