Our Monday league finals, don't play in that myself but some pics from the facebook page.
Does anyone take pride in a league anymore
- Thread starter Poke_N_Hope
- Start date
Junior league Nationals qualifier tournament.
Is the NAPA league the former "Heart Of Ohio" league. If so I agree completely. I brought the "Heart of Ohio Pool League" to Cincinnati and ran it for a couple of
years! I know that pool league management can be a huge PITA but I was able to overcome the APA in Cincinnati, which was the only reason I got involved. I as
with most of the league players in the area were fed up with the APA. Talking bar owners and players into switching over to the "Heart of Ohio" was by far the
easiest thing I've ever sold in my life. All I had to say was that we were nothing like the APA and my foot was in the door. Eventually by the end of the second year
I had found myself so busy with the league that I neglected my other business interests. My pool room suffered and orders for new Sherm cues were piling up! I
decided to give my franchise to Rick Garrison (a pro pool player/friend of mine) to run. He wasn't a great people person and had an offer to go partners in a new
pool room a couple of hundred miles away. He ended up giving up the league which I don't think anyone else has taken it over here. The area players loved it
though!
Sherm
Banks
Banned
That was a cute reply, 2 points for you. I made that post in fun, but, the truth of the matter is that in the APA, you're not playing the game of pool, you're playing a
game of sandbagging, deceit, loophole hunting, and are penalized for improving! They claim that the APA has 250,000 members but have had a million people try it
out. That tells me that 3 out of 4 people who tried it decided it was a waste of time! Those 3 out of 4 people were right. You probably don't have a pool team, you
have a drinking team that plays a few games of pool IF it doesn't interfere with their drinking.
The 23 rule is the biggest problem with the league. It creates a situation where people almost have to sandbag in order to keep their teams together and
competitive with the other sandbagging teams. I believe that it could be great for pool if they would abolish that rule, but as long as it's in play, the league sucks! It's
all about Terry Bell and Larry Hubbard using the 23 rule like a pyramid scheme because of the way teams are forced to break up and finds new low handicapped
players to fill their teams. I'm sure this makes the bottom line much better but I'm not interested in pushing the owners from millionaires to billionaires! What do they
do for the sport? They put nothing into professional pool, into getting young people involved in the sport, or anything that would help the sport flourish. All they're
concerned about is making more money!
I could spend hours telling of personal situations that I've endured with the APA but I don't have the hours. If you're interested do a search on my APA posts on
AZ and it will explain why I feel the way I do. I only want what's best for the sport, the players (APA and real() pool players), and hate to see players punished
for improving!
NUFF SAID!
Sherm >> Does not care about the money, just wants to play pool the way it was meant to be played!
I've never once felt that I was punished for improving. The closest I feel to that is the fact that I've had to bounce around a bit since I've been maxed out. APA pool is no less real pool than half the other stuff out there.. go ahead and tell me Bonus Ball is real pool.
3 out of 4 people have tried a lot of stuff, but don't stay with it because they don't care. I know, it's hard to understand that sometimes, but just because I've been to a restaurant once, doesn't mean I hate it because I don't go back or don't go often.
I've had a pool team and I've had drinking teams. Hell, most of the people admired on this forum have livers that saw more alcohol than a cruise ship. Maybe they weren't serious either. I've never tried to hold a player back and have never told any of my friends to dump. That's more than some people can say, including "serious" and "pro" players.
The APA has the 23 rule because their target group is the casual player. I have no problem with that at all. I feel bad that I'm slowly moving beyond that, but it's something I can accept. What do they do for the sport? Gee, I don't know.. make it appealing for entry-level players? Make it organized? Tell me.. what do "pros" do for pool? Most don't do anything. Heck, they've got a hard enough time doing anything for themselves.
Oh, actually, our APA hosts the NWPA once in a while. The APA also does things with pro players. You know, things that involve paychecks and all.
This APA player likes to gamble with the locals that enjoy knocking it. I'm into league for playing, for improving and for the social aspect. Not heavy hitter, but I'll try just about anybody at nearly any game, of course there's some I prefer at times.
I've never heard of the APA paying any pro players except for the Owners, Terry Bell and Larry Hubbard. And Larry Hubbard was much more well known as a "hustler" than a pool player. JMHO
Sherm
Banks
Banned
They've got columns from Christina De La Garza, who is also an infrequent poster here. Tom Rossman is a regular attendee at many of their events. Jeanette Lee and Alison Fisher have also attended their events. Ray Shultz also has information on there and Tina Pawloski as well. Normally, people get small fees for at least having regular columns. For the other things, like appearances and advertising, they of course are getting paid.
With all of the male "pro" players, they could care less. How many have even gone to an APA event to market themselves? I'd guess the number could be counted on one hand. When the ladies pros are around at our events, they schmooz it up with all of the people there. They know that the potential for exposure is too great to pass up.
Larry may have been known as a hustler, but how many "hustlers" bother helping others out? Most wouldn't give out their knowledge without being tortured. Those are the people most say the APA should be supporting.. the ones that wouldn't do a thing for others without a promise of big bucks(which they'd promptly blow).
A very large % of APA players cannot even tell you who any of the players you've mentioned and Earl Strickland, Efren Reyes and Shane Van Boening are. They don't care about the sport. What good does it do for them to go to an APA event? The league needs to promote the sport, not just their league!
Sherm
Sherm
Banks
Banned
Most people that fish couldn't tell you the name of a single pro. That doesn't mean they don't care about it.
Let me repeat..
If the pros want some goddamn attention, they need to get up off their butts and work for it. Don't give me a freakin sob story about how nobody's doing anything for them. They don't do a freakin thing for themselves and wouldn't even consider doing anything for anybody else.
That's what you want my amature $$ to support? Screw that.
I've bought Brumback's DVD, I bought the Beard's DVD, I bought two from Joe Tucker, I got one from Lenny. You know why? Because they put themselves out there, make the effort and reap the rewards. From what you've said, you just want Joe and Jill Schmoe to know and support pros for no reason other than they're pros. Sorry, doesn't work that way.
You've already said it yourself.. the APA promotes and supports pool by creating a platform for beginners. Now that they've succeded greatly, you want them to give handouts to a bunch of people who wouldn't do crap.
I'd guess because you are really bad at banking and breaking
:grin:I don't know what Lenny teaches...
Banks
Banned
I'd guess because you are really bad at banking and breaking
I don't know what Lenny teaches...
My secret's out! Ugh.. that means I'll need a spot.
I had Lenny's vid from the California Billiard Club(?) 1P tourney with Rafael and Sylver, I think. Never got to watch the whole thing and it disappeared.
Yes.
The only pro's that show up for apa events are the pro's that get paid to and if you think the female players are not there more for there pretty face then pool playing ability I got a bridge in a desert to sell you.
Apa is a product of our society. We live in a country where no one wants to work for anything anymore. The apa like welfare facilitates that. It takes work and dedication to get better...aint nobody got time for that anymore. It's easier to join a league like apa so you can compete equally then put the time in.
Yes my team was penalized for getting better. We won our tri cups and had a hell of a team. unfortunately we're to honest. all my players ended up going up and by the time ltc's came around we couldn't even produce a team. lesson learned...if you want to win your going to have to sand bag.
I was going to leave apa now that ltc's are past but they did finally start a masters division so I'm going to give that a shot first.
Apa is a product of our society. We live in a country where no one wants to work for anything anymore. The apa like welfare facilitates that. It takes work and dedication to get better...aint nobody got time for that anymore. It's easier to join a league like apa so you can compete equally then put the time in.
Yes my team was penalized for getting better. We won our tri cups and had a hell of a team. unfortunately we're to honest. all my players ended up going up and by the time ltc's came around we couldn't even produce a team. lesson learned...if you want to win your going to have to sand bag.
I was going to leave apa now that ltc's are past but they did finally start a masters division so I'm going to give that a shot first.
Banks
Banned
That first statement is just rubbish. Just because people don't want to spend 12 hours a day getting good at something that they have no talent for does not equate to socialism/welfare. Who the hell would want to join something where they stand no chance? I may as well try out for basketball, or maybe even a marathon since I'm a smoker. If you can't understand that people do it primarily for social enjoyment, you're really missing something. They aren't stupid, they know they can't go to a pool hall, throw down $100 and roll it into $10k. They just want something enjoyable to do after working all week. Compete equally.. hell, look at the pros.. they're some of the biggest freakin nits on the planet, they wouldn't lay down their own $10 without knowing it's a lock. I've said it before, too.. maybe I should go to talent shows and tell all the kids and their parents to stop wasting time because they just suck.
My team's going to regionals on Saturday. They need to win 2 sets to go to Vegas. First time I've made it that far with a team, but I haven't been able to play since the regular season because of points. I coached my butt off for citys or whatever you want to call it. None of the players sandbag, none of them are really spectacular at their s/l. They just try hard and do what they can. I've had teams that go up just in time for those tournaments and it sucks, but it happens.
I do and did a lot. the only way to find out where you are as a player is to play better players even. I NEVER asked for spots It wasn't about the money. It was about seeing where I was as a player in comparison to the the people I thought were better then me. I'd like to start playing in the mezz tour and hopefully planet pool. Not because I think I'm pro caliber but because I feel I play even with everyone here in local tournaments and leagues so the only way to get better is to move to a level of players that are probably going to eat my lunch. lol but that's okay... hopefully that will force me to a new level of play myself.
Banks
Banned
Because not everybody's got time to burn. For some, it may be their only night out with friends, away from the kid and/or wife. Others may just want something to do. Not everybody will reach even a B level. That $20+ each week may be all they can reasonably afford to throw away. People act like if somebody plays pool, they have to aspire to pro speed or they're doing it wrong.
Why does anyone run against Ussein? Because, for most, they've reached such a level that they can compete with the best or at least stand a chance on a good day.
If you want a trip to Vegas, you shouldn't play BCA because you can just buy in. Iirc, you can also just buy in to most other tournaments. I handicapped myself into the top bracket, guess I'll try harder next time. After all, how hard can it be to beat(from how people here talk) an entire bracket full of sandbaggers?
Banks
Banned
You have to consider the circumstances, though. People get excited over a lot of things. For some, that's part of their little world and good for them. To get a team through that far is quite a feat considering the restrictions. They still have to perform well for themselves. That's excluding the sandbagger, which does not always mean that they still win.
Even if somebody goes to Vegas as a 4 and does well in singles, that still means that they had to get through a whole pile of other 4s to do it. While it may not mean that they're better than the 6 that went two and out, it still means that they performed well enough in their "peer group".
Some people will get competitive over just about anything..
I do understand where you're coming from, but I think that people tend to take the APA players' seriousness too seriously themselves.
what are you doing in a league thread ?:grin-square:
a trip to vegas is something to shoot for if you are a low level player, most serious players just can buy their way in at the bcapl events.
as far as sandbagging goes, i have seen more obvious sandbagging in my one night a week bcapl format money league than in my 3 apa divisions. i cant think of one person in my napa league that i think may be under handicapped.
Most APA operators make a very good living for running the league. The turnover happens when the players that joined as a team of friends find that their handicaps have gone up and do not allow them to play on the same team anymore. APA grows because of teams having to split and bring in new lower ranked players.
Over a period of time these players get involved enough in the overall pool opportunities to realize that playing for a full year, playoffs, tri annuals, regionals etc. to win a trip is difficult. One in 30 or 40 teams get a trip. The payback is about 40% of what players contribute to play. They discover that other leagues offer 3 chances at a trip each year with as few as 8 teams competing for it. They can do it because the payback to the players is almost 100%, VNEA operators,for example, make their money from what is put into the tables. True there is no jackets and pins but what the heck you can't have everything.
How much would you charge to deal with 4800 pool players?
I'm guessing it would have to be by the hour.
Not at all. Both leagues I mentioned are a business with different business models. The APA is very well run and a good place for the lower skilled, new to league play, players to play. My observations, that I outlined in the initial post, are simply the result of their business model.
In some instances a league operator approaches a group of friends and invites them to enter a team. They do and enjoy it. Over time their handicaps increase and they can no longer stay together as a team. The choice left is to sandbag (some take that route but it only can be sustained for awhile), split the team or quit the league.
In many cases the exposure to league play and to other more experienced league players open up other opportunities to play in other leagues. If you said that new players could also start in leagues like VNEA that is true but, for the most part, they do not accommodate the lesser skilled players to the extent that the APA does.
Clearly, most other leagues return a higher percentage of what the players pay in in the form of either trips or cash. In my experience the two leagues I mentioned are at the ends of the spectrum. An APA league operator runs a business that is meant to be his source of revenue, his job. A VNEA league operator's business is to place Valley tables in suitable locations and he receives his revenue from the tables. He uses the league to promote the use of his tables and generate more business from them for both himself and the location operator. Neither is a pyramid scheme.