Does Busti use the DuckieSystem?

kawawoky71 said:
what's Duckie system? Thanks
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There is no duckie system. It is not a system at all. Its a method I use that is based on the ghost ball contact patch concept and not the contact point concept. It is not my idea, but an extension of what others before me have written, in specific, Babe Cranfield. When I was developing this idea, I received a copy of his Straight Pool Bible and in it was the Spot on the Table concept plus the Arrow to be made for training. I just added a little more to what he started. Its nothing new, nor is it mine.

Instead of contact points on the OB that some people use for aiming, I use the contact patch of the CB and try to put it on a spot on the table that is 1/2 CB from the equator of the OB and is on the same line as the OB contact point to the pocket.

The contact patch is where the CB meets the table. For any shot on the table there is only one spot on the table that will make the OB go where you want regardless of where the CB is on the table. I just try to put the CB contact patch on that spot on the table.

Then there is understanding the geometry of a shot using the ghostball concept. This is not for aiming, but to help understand the effects distance and angles have on a shot and what can and can not be done. It can be used to help determine where the spot is, but not used in getting it there.

There is only one way to learn to get the CB to that spot, practice......trail and error....nothing more and nothing less. Practice......

Then there is the Arrow by Arthur Cranfield that is a training device that can be used in practice that points to the spot on the table that makes the CB go where you want. Google it....

Check out the drawing in my avatar.
 
Folks:

By calling something "the Duckie System" and then asking questions about it, you are giving this banger -- i.e. duckie -- legitimacy.

Put it this way -- he uses ghostball completely wrong. The idea behind ghostball is to shoot the cue ball into the "circular volume" of the ghostball as it is positioned against the object ball for a pocketing alignment. In other words, you are aiming at a 2-1/4 inch target resting against the object ball, *NOT* a 1mm point on the table.

John Barton actually did an EXCELLENT video that proves why aiming at a point or speck on the table fails you every time:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=d-L4QMNiVxk

For those that doubt this, give John's test a try. See if you can accurately place a sharpie mark on the spot (or "contact patch" as duckie likes to call it) where you think the ghostball would be touching the paper. Forget about pocketing alignment for now. Just do this test to see if you can even accurately put a sharpie mark on the paper that would correspond to where the ghostball would be contacting the paper if it were resting against the circle (object ball).

Again, that's NOT what ghostball aiming is about. Although John failed in his attempt to prove that "ghostball aiming" fails you (even John made the mistake that ghostball aiming is NOT about aiming for a spot on the table), he did prove that invaluable point -- of how difficult it is to accurately envision a point (contact patch) on the table as duckie advocates.

Babe Cranfield's arrow is meant to help you envision (perceive) the ghostball sitting against the object ball for a pocketing alignment. It is *NOT* designed to get you to start shooting at miniscule points on the table cloth. Although yes, you could use the arrow initially by aiming at the point, that's not what the arrow is trying to teach you.

Hint for duckie: instead of looking at that point of the arrow as it rests on the table, raise your gaze 1-1/8 inch up in the air from the point of that arrow, and then envision a fully-formed ghostball resting on that point. THAT is what the arrow (and Babe Cranfield) are trying to teach you.

-Sean <-- should author a book entitled, "The Duckie Fallacies" (or "The Duckie Follies" :p )
 
sfleinen said:
... Babe Cranfield's arrow is meant to help you envision (perceive) the ghostball sitting against the object ball for a pocketing alignment. It is *NOT* designed to get you to start shooting at miniscule points on the table cloth. Although yes, you could use the arrow initially by aiming at the point, that's not what the arrow is trying to teach you.

Hint for duckie: instead of looking at that point of the arrow as it rests on the table, raise your gaze 1-1/8 inch up in the air from the point of that arrow, and then envision a fully-formed ghostball resting on that point. THAT is what the arrow (and Babe Cranfield) are trying to teach you. ...
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I think you may have gone a bit too far with this. I checked by re-reading Cranfield's presentation of his "Arrow System" in two of his books, Essential Pool and The Straight Pool Bible. By my reading, he simply uses the exterior point of the arrow to determine the point of aim for the center of the cue ball. I.e., one simply rolls the cue ball over the exterior point of the arrow. He's emphasizing the difference between the point of aim and the point of contact and using the arrow device ("works particularly well for the newer player") to help the player train his eye to see that difference.

Cranfield does not then suggest expanding that visualization into a fully formed ghost ball and shooting by trying to replace the ghost ball with the cue ball.

duckie's contact patch on the table is simply his term for the location of the point of Cranfield's arrow.

Whether one aims the vertical center axis of the CB at where the ghost ball sits on the table, or aims the center of the CB at the center of the ghost ball, or visualizes the full ghost ball and aims to replace it with the CB -- I think these are all valid (but not necessarily easy) ghost-ball aiming techniques.
 
AtLarge said:
I think you may have gone a bit too far with this. I checked by re-reading Cranfield's presentation of his "Arrow System" in two of his books, Essential Pool and The Straight Pool Bible. By my reading, he simply uses the exterior point of the arrow to determine the point of aim for the center of the cue ball. I.e., one simply rolls the cue ball over the exterior point of the arrow. He's emphasizing the difference between the point of aim and the point of contact and using the arrow device ("works particularly well for the newer player") to help the player train his eye to see that difference.

Cranfield does not then suggest expanding that visualization into a fully formed ghost ball and shooting by trying to replace the ghost ball with the cue ball.

duckie's contact patch on the table is simply his term for the location of the point of Cranfield's arrow.

Whether one aims the vertical center axis of the CB at where the ghost ball sits on the table, or aims the center of the CB at the center of the ghost ball, or visualizes the full ghost ball and aims to replace it with the CB -- I think these are all valid (but not necessarily easy) ghost-ball aiming techniques.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've gone too far. I think we all agree that duckie is being too authoritative for a player of his amateur caliber. It'd been years since I'd referred to Babe's works, but when I was starting out in pool, the inference I got -- not just from Babe's but from Mosconi's and other instructional works -- is that "ghostball" is just that -- visualizing a ghosted ball at the position next to the object ball for a pocketing alignment. "Ghostball" does not mean "spot or speck on the table." Whether Babe says it outright or not, the intent of training with a device like the arrow is to help the beginner "know where the ghostball is" for a pocketing alignment. Initially, training the beginner by putting a spot on the table is one thing, but the intent is to graduate from there. When you take the training device off of the table and are now in a real-world playing situation, you are not going to try to "find" that 1mm spot on the table where the training device would be, that is exactly 1-1/8 (1.125) inch away from the object ball. You SHOULD'VE graduated from that, to being able to perceive the ghostball at its location for a pocketing alignment.

That's the problem with advocates of alternative aiming systems; is this perception of what ghostball aiming is. I.e. they've never learned how to use ghostball correctly. Or, they'll come from a stance of "trying to aim at a 1mm spot on the table" and then say, "aiming at a fully-formed ghostball is just as difficult and a moot issue." Which is strawman and not true at all. Reason: you have the object ball right there that you're aiming at, and it's much, much easier to perceive an outline of a ghosted ball of the exact same size [as the object ball] right next to it, than to try to picture a 1mm spot on the table that is exactly 1-1/8 (1.125) inch away from the object ball. Fractional aiming using a ghosted ball uses precisely that technique -- by perceiving a ghosted outline that "eclipses" the object ball by a certain amount. And if you pair that with a memorized table of fractional ball-overlap standards (i.e. quarter-ball, one-third-ball, half-ball, three-quarter-ball, etc.), you have a checks and balances system.

-Sean
 
Place a stringed golf tee on that dot.
Aim at it with your tip, have someone pull the string before cueball
lands on that spot.
I wish I can patent that and that I have time to practice these days .
 
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Sean, I understand your points. But you said: "Babe Cranfield's arrow is meant to help you envision (perceive) the ghostball sitting against the object ball for a pocketing alignment. It is *NOT* designed to get you to start shooting at miniscule points on the table cloth."

I merely pointed out that Cranfield was talking about helping the player find the precise point of aim. He did not talk (in his books) about graduating to visualizing the full ghost ball and then shooting to replace it with the CB. Perhaps, then, you would say that what Cranfield advocated was not ghost-ball aiming, but I'd say it certainly is one form of it. And what duckie does is certainly consistent with Cranfield's teaching.
 
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