Does it Make Any Sense?

C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
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Oh yea. Very common.

I say let this person keep shooting this way. The more he shoots the more he will learn.

You will learn a lot from trying to put english on dead straight shots. You can learn how to throw a ball or cheat a pocket. I think he knows what he is doing. Nobody just decides to apply english on dead straight shots unless they are trying something new.
 
I never used center ball playing pool and doubt I would have gotten higher, uhh, doubt my level of play would have gotten higher, with use of it.

I dont think it is a factor at all, once a player achieves a moderate degree of proficiency.

To me, 14.1 style position play would be about the best habit a player could integrate into a rotation or 1p game...ex: proper side of the ball, lots of one rail shape off short rail.
 
Black-Balled said:
I never used center ball playing pool and doubt I would have gotten higher, uhh, doubt my level of play would have gotten higher, with use of it.

I dont think it is a factor at all, once a player achieves a moderate degree of proficiency.

To me, 14.1 style position play would be about the best habit a player could integrate into a rotation or 1p game...ex: proper side of the ball, lots of one rail shape off short rail.
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Walter, I’m not talking about using sidespin which I love to use as well, but I’m talking about using it on an absolutely straight in long shot. I’m not talking about a straight shot on pockets that are large enough to allow you to cheat the pocket to create an angle to get the CB where you want, which is very useful. But on a longer shot in which you are just trying to pocket the ball and either stop, go forward or draw back, I see no need for it.

It requires the brain to have to make exact calculations of swerve and deflection that are just not necessary to have to think about on a straight shot. I’m just curious if this player might have some vision center issues going on.
 
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The only reason to do so is if you don't trust your stroke and you fear that side spin will creep into the shot. If you put side spin on it knowingly, then you aim for it.

The best way is to find your centre (in pool and in life) and use side spin as little as possible.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
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Does it matter what he does if he’s an improving player and making gains?
 
ChrisinNC said:
Walter, I’m not talking about using sidespin which I love to use as well, but I’m talking about using it on an absolutely straight in long shot. I’m not talking about a straight shot on pockets that are large enough to allow you to cheat the pocket to create an angle to get the CB where you want, which is very useful. But on a longer shot in which you are just trying to pocket the ball and either stop, go forward or draw back, I see no need for it.

It requires the brain to have to make exact calculations of swerve and deflection that are just not necessary to have to think about on a straight shot. I’m just curious if this player might have some vision center issues going on.
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I do (used to!) put a bit of side on all shots and agree it seems to be add an element of complexity.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?
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CJ's TOI method is motivated in large part to "choose a side" to hit rather than trying to hit centerball and potentially be surprised by whatever accidental sidespin you produce. His "reasoning" is that, by choosing a side, you cut the possible range of stroke errors in half - which is nonsense. He's a much better player than reasoner.

pj
chgo
 
It's possible to do something wrong at an incredibly high level and still succeed. Stephen Hendry won everything and implied he was aiming with the wrong side of his vision and was compensating a majority of time (although this might have been a way to push the whole Sightright thing). I've known very strong players that didn't even know their dominant eye / vision center. I personally don't see why anyone would make a straight in shot harder on themselves by adding spin but I suppose it's not stupid if the ball goes in.
 
Texas Carom Club said:
Does it matter what he does if he’s an improving player and making gains?
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This player is improving at a relatively slow pace, considering the hours they are investing in their game. I know there are a few things in their game that I could definitely help them with, but I’m not going to get involved unless they ask me for help, as I think they may be working with someone else.
 
ChrisinNC said:
This player is improving at a relatively slow pace, considering the hours they are investing in their game. I know there are a few things in their game that I could definitely help them with, but I’m not going to get involved unless they ask me for help, as I think they may be working with someone else.
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Yep never give unsolicited advice!
Ooops
 
pays to mind your own business as most dont want to hear anything that contradicts what they think.

his game will change as time goes on and he emulates someone he admires.

and as for the touch of inside most misses by all speeds of players come from under cutting the ball. so a touch of inside gives a little squirt and helps that for c.j. or whatever he thinks is helping him.

if it works for you then that is what is right for you.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
Click to expand...
If you're asking because you genuinely hope to give this other player some potentially helpful insight, it's a good thing.
😎👍
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
Click to expand...
We had a good snooker when I was young who aimed with extreme left to make a long straight shot on a 6 x 12…..but was hitting center ball.
……I asked him why he did that….he said he wanted to see where to hit the cue ball without the cue blocking his view….Jimmy Moore had a similar approach.
So if this kid is making the straight shots without whitey spinning, he may be doing the same thing.
 
ChrisinNC said:
This player is improving at a relatively slow pace, considering the hours they are investing in their game. I know there are a few things in their game that I could definitely help them with, but I’m not going to get involved unless they ask me for help, as I think they may be working with someone else.
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The next time you are banging a few balls with the other player, just mention that you've noticed them doing A, B, C, etc, and tell them that you're genuinely curious about the routine/practice. At the very least you've opened the door to conversation.
😎👍
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
Click to expand...
Since you can remove it at any time yourself, I don't see any "flex".

pj
chgo
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
Click to expand...

I would make one gentle suggestion and see how he takes it. If he takes it well, another suggestion a few trips down the road.

When I was a youngster the closest thing I had to a mentor was a pool hall owner. He came over to my table and made a suggestion. A few days later he did it again. A few days later ... I had never seen him give advice to anyone except in the defense of his equipment so about the third time he gave me advice in a week I shot him a resentful look, I wasn't damaging equipment! That was the last advice Jessie ever gave me. For the next three or four years he would come to the table now and then and give the person I was playing advice, often advice they had nowhere near enough skill to implement. When I used the advice later in that session or soon afterwards I would look over to the counter and see Jessie grinning.

Advice is usually taken well when it is presented well. I was a moron when Jessie first started helping me. He was smart enough to circle around unneeded defenses.

Hu
 
ChrisinNC said:
Does it make any sense for a highly motivated and improving player to always be applying significant off center axis spin on the cue ball on an absolutely straight in shot? Would CJ Wiley who advocates his touch of inside aiming system recommend this and if so, why?

I know this player respects my game and my experience in the game, but I just don’t know if I should make them aware of this and ask them why?
Click to expand...
No. There is a school of thought that the likes of Earl, Ronnie O, and Mike Sigel subscribe to which advocates for pretty much never trying to hit center, but they use trace amounts of spin. Significant amounts can't be good imo so he's either working on something or just needs a more experienced player to tell him to cut it out instead of debating whether he should on an internet forum :p. I kid of course and respect your stance on unsolicited advice, but if you want to help him without being too intrusive you can simply ask him if he's working on anything in particular by applying a lot of spin on shots that don't need it because it's not something you see often. Might get the ball rolling for him actually asking for advice.
 
I've seen this all too often, I've seen conversations of guys stating you need to put this spin on the ball to pocket it. Not entirely true, you need to put this on the ball to get position to the next ball, but not spin to pocket a shot.
 
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