Does it Truly Matter???

touretti

touretti

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So, I have to ask someone more knowledgeable this question. I play in south-central PA, and have progressed a LOT over the last 7 years or so. But, my stroke is so terrible, that's actually where I got my nickname from. Now here's the thing: I hold the cue closer to the joint than most, and have crazy practice strokes, but I'm pretty sure that when I follow through, I correct mostly everything that looks wrong.

I've had the pleasure to play with Mike Davis a few sets because a few locals know him, and everyone talks about his unorthodox stroke and mechanics; my game suffers from the same type of thing, but it doesn't really affect my play THAT I KNOW OF.

So here's my question: I've had people tell me that unless I change my mechanics, I will never get better. The thing is, I've been able to run more racks than ever, and I'm starting to be able to be confident and win when I play the ghost. Does it truly matter if one's mechanics are skewed if the results don't seem to suffer? So what if my stroke isn't picture perfect is how I feel, especially if I'm steadily improving? Not only that, but I can beat the old timers who tell me this type of stuff and I really want some opinions on the issue.
 
Don't change a thing. If you are playing well then you are doing great things subconsciously and that it what you have to do to play great pool. If you go to changing things then your game will go down hill. I messed up awhile back and changed my stroke because I thought it was unorthodox and I've been struggling to get back to where I was before. Just my opinion.
 
Touretti,

If you can send the cue ball where you want it to go & with the spin or no spin that you want on it, then that is all that counts.

It's your stroke & you need to work on cementing YOUR fundamentals.

If you are holding the cue closer to the joint there is a good chance that you are using a piston like stroke & pushing the cue through to the finish. If so I would recommend focusing on the stick going straight away from & straight into the ball with no rocking up & down or sideways.

Check out CJ Wiley on you tube. He holds the cue a bit forward on quite a few shots. Some of his grip & wrist action techniques might be for you.

Just keep in mind that someone else's fundamental for their stroke does not mean they are fundamentals to your stroke. That being said, that does not mean that there are not some basics that might make you & your stroke even better.

Good Luck, Regards, & Best Wishes
Rick

PS I'm not certified as an instructor & all of the above are just my humble opinions.
 
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touretti said:
So, I have to ask someone more knowledgeable this question. I play in south-central PA, and have progressed a LOT over the last 7 years or so. But, my stroke is so terrible, that's actually where I got my nickname from. Now here's the thing: I hold the cue closer to the joint than most, and have crazy practice strokes, but I'm pretty sure that when I follow through, I correct mostly everything that looks wrong.

I've had the pleasure to play with Mike Davis a few sets because a few locals know him, and everyone talks about his unorthodox stroke and mechanics; my game suffers from the same type of thing, but it doesn't really affect my play THAT I KNOW OF.

So here's my question: I've had people tell me that unless I change my mechanics, I will never get better. The thing is, I've been able to run more racks than ever, and I'm starting to be able to be confident and win when I play the ghost. Does it truly matter if one's mechanics are skewed if the results don't seem to suffer? So what if my stroke isn't picture perfect is how I feel, especially if I'm steadily improving? Not only that, but I can beat the old timers who tell me this type of stuff and I really want some opinions on the issue.
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Let take a look at the journey not the destination.
The trip will take a much longer period of time with faulty mechanics. Still you will arrive at your destination. Good mechanic just get you there sooner and keep you there longer.

A good friend of mine always says:

"You don't know what you don't know"....OZ

randyg
 
touretti said:
So, I have to ask someone more knowledgeable this question. I play in south-central PA, and have progressed a LOT over the last 7 years or so. But, my stroke is so terrible, that's actually where I got my nickname from. Now here's the thing: I hold the cue closer to the joint than most, and have crazy practice strokes, but I'm pretty sure that when I follow through, I correct mostly everything that looks wrong.

I've had the pleasure to play with Mike Davis a few sets because a few locals know him, and everyone talks about his unorthodox stroke and mechanics; my game suffers from the same type of thing, but it doesn't really affect my play THAT I KNOW OF.

So here's my question: I've had people tell me that unless I change my mechanics, I will never get better. The thing is, I've been able to run more racks than ever, and I'm starting to be able to be confident and win when I play the ghost. Does it truly matter if one's mechanics are skewed if the results don't seem to suffer? So what if my stroke isn't picture perfect is how I feel, especially if I'm steadily improving? Not only that, but I can beat the old timers who tell me this type of stuff and I really want some opinions on the issue.
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Well, just by your saying that you hold the cue closer to the joint, I can guess that you are short stroking pretty much everything --- That is if it's your grip hand you're taking about and not your bridge hand. Short stroking will pretty much keep your errors to a minimum, HOWEVER, there are things you will not be able to accomplish.

So, if you keep it short, you will be fairly successful, but seriously limited. Over time you may come to notice the limitations when you see others do things you can't.

If you meant that your bridge hand was closer to the joint, then that's a different problem.
 
Touretti,

I just noticed that you are about 4 hours away from Fran Crimi.

Perhaps you might want an eyes on evaluation from her.

I am fairly sure that she teaches both pendulum & piston strokes.

If there is something that can be corrected that would help you, I'm sure that she can get it fixed & I don't think she is of the one style fits all type.

Good Luck on the Journey.

New York is a popular destination. Perhaps there is a fast bus with a lot of stops or a slow train that goes straight through, non stop.

Good Luck, Best Wishes, & Shoot Well,
Rick
 
Photos (or better, a video) would be helpful. There are unorthodox approaches that won't hurt anybody and other specifics that I think would hurt everybody. Choking up on the cue stick in the stance could be okay if other movements build good angles during the actual stroke. Let's see more...
 
In my opinion, fundamentals are necessary.

The problems comes when people with good intentions try to teach you the fundamentals as they perceive them. In most cases these folks will be teaching you their personal preferences on how to execute not solid fundamentals. So when you try to change and find that these changes don't work for you then you will be negative towards change and improving your fundamentals. When in reality it was not the fundamentals at fault but their personal preferences being presented as fundamentals.

If it were me, I would take Rick's suggestion and head to New York and see Fran. She knows fundamentals. I would love to occupy about 5-10 hours of her time picking her brain! It would make for one heck of a weekend trip!

If there is a qualified instructor closer then go see them. The hard part is verifying they are qualified. Qualified doesn't come in the form of a certificate. It comes in the form of exhibiting competence. About all you can do is research your options and go with what you feel is best.

You will never regret improving your fundamentals, but you could easily regret choosing not to!

Lastly, some good advice I received from RandyG - If you seek instruction make sure to go with an open mind!

Good luck!

Ken
 
As long as you feel you are playing well and improving, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It may become a limiting factor as you improve though, if so and you reach a plateau then you may need to address some of those idiosyncrasies to get beyond that level.

What matters most in most sports like tennis, golf, pool, etc., is consistency at the moment of impact. How you arrive there is best taught and executed in the simplest manner possible, but many of the top players in these sports have unique qualities about their swing/stroke that don't need to be changed for them to play at the level they do. If you are able to hit where you are aiming and get the necessary action on the ball consistently, you are good for now.

That being said, if you are looking for some validation, go see Fran (she's awesome!!!), or talk to Mike Davis if you see him again, one unorthodox player to another. Don't worry about the all-too-often mediocre players that think they mean well by giving unsolicited textbook advice to everyone they meet... :)

Scott
 
I just wanted to say thanks for all the great recommendations, guys. I feel truly honored that you feel that way about me.

(Now back to our normally scheduled program)
 
touretti said:
So, I have to ask someone more knowledgeable this question. I play in south-central PA, and have progressed a LOT over the last 7 years or so. But, my stroke is so terrible, that's actually where I got my nickname from. Now here's the thing: I hold the cue closer to the joint than most, and have crazy practice strokes, but I'm pretty sure that when I follow through, I correct mostly everything that looks wrong.

I've had the pleasure to play with Mike Davis a few sets because a few locals know him, and everyone talks about his unorthodox stroke and mechanics; my game suffers from the same type of thing, but it doesn't really affect my play THAT I KNOW OF.

So here's my question: I've had people tell me that unless I change my mechanics, I will never get better. The thing is, I've been able to run more racks than ever, and I'm starting to be able to be confident and win when I play the ghost. Does it truly matter if one's mechanics are skewed if the results don't seem to suffer? So what if my stroke isn't picture perfect is how I feel, especially if I'm steadily improving? Not only that, but I can beat the old timers who tell me this type of stuff and I really want some opinions on the issue.
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i havent read the other replies...:embarrassed2:
you can be good at being bad
but will that get you to pro???
there are always players who god given ability will make them champions
but how many champions can you name that didnt have a fundamentaly sound stroke
jmho
 
I think sticking with what works is easy and may work for you, but I think to reach one's full potential, players should be shedding their flaws and rebuidling parts of their game as they improve. Mike Davis is an exception... for every pro that has overcome their flawed stroke to reach the highest level, there are thousands and thousands of players who are held back from being their best because of those flaws.
 
Wow, you've all given me a ton of responses, and I really appreciate it! Maybe I will have to pay Fran a visit though in the future, I would appreciate feedback! I will also take a video sometime so that people can see what I'm talking about. I had the feeling that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I played with a masters level gentleman who was a pro golfer/instructor too by the name of Dave...he comes in a night or two per week ( I play 6 hrs 5 days a week) and he said that its unorthodox, but I understand my own way of doing it. He said the most important thing was to find my stroke and to miss shots to both the left and right to get the feel down for what is right to pocket a ball...the strange thing is I can't find a cue I'm happy with (who is?).

I've shot with meucci originals, pierce b.a. shafts, but I am most consistent with a 314/2 which I hate to admit. The Z is too much on simonis. I feel like predator shafts make the cue ball behave unnaturally...Mosconi didnt need one. That being said, it feels best for MY game, and I again hate admitting it.

Also, I really a lot on throw...but to each his/her own, that shaft really works with my mechanics, and its interesting to see that knowing that Mike also uses one (Z/2). Hopefully i didnt spark another topic haha :)

Thanks very much for your suggestions, and I will definitely try to upload a video soon. If I dont respond right away, dont think I left! Thanks again everyone.
 
FranCrimi said:
Well, just by your saying that you hold the cue closer to the joint, I can guess that you are short stroking pretty much everything --- That is if it's your grip hand you're taking about and not your bridge hand. Short stroking will pretty much keep your errors to a minimum, HOWEVER, there are things you will not be able to accomplish.

So, if you keep it short, you will be fairly successful, but seriously limited. Over time you may come to notice the limitations when you see others do things you can't.

If you meant that your bridge hand was closer to the joint, then that's a different problem.
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I think I compensate the difference...most of the time my grip hand is way forward on the wrap, but I think my bridge is equidistantly proportional and slightly forward because of that. I can get all the action I really need. I tend to use an open bridge 90% of the time unless I'm using something like a reverse-english draw if I got too straight in. I think my whole game is weird to be honest, but its comfortable that way and I can run racks, just not consistently due to position botches. I'll see if I can record myself at league tomorrow.

Also, don't know if this has affected my style, but my preference of games in order are 9, straight, 8 (not a one pocket fan).:grin:
 
Problem stroke

I watch Touretti play on the regular. He has came a long way in the few years I have watched him play he just needs to get with the little brunette that hung out with him for months in the poolroom and she would get his stroke in order.
 
email me if you need further assistance at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

touretti said:
So, I have to ask someone more knowledgeable this question. I play in south-central PA, and have progressed a LOT over the last 7 years or so. But, my stroke is so terrible, that's actually where I got my nickname from. Now here's the thing: I hold the cue closer to the joint than most, and have crazy practice strokes, but I'm pretty sure that when I follow through, I correct mostly everything that looks wrong.

I've had the pleasure to play with Mike Davis a few sets because a few locals know him, and everyone talks about his unorthodox stroke and mechanics; my game suffers from the same type of thing, but it doesn't really affect my play THAT I KNOW OF.

So here's my question: I've had people tell me that unless I change my mechanics, I will never get better. The thing is, I've been able to run more racks than ever, and I'm starting to be able to be confident and win when I play the ghost. Does it truly matter if one's mechanics are skewed if the results don't seem to suffer? So what if my stroke isn't picture perfect is how I feel, especially if I'm steadily improving? Not only that, but I can beat the old timers who tell me this type of stuff and I really want some opinions on the issue.
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There's been many players (including Lassiter and myself) that held the cue closer to the balance point. There are some real advantages to this technique, however, you also need to know the technique to use a longer bridge if necessary.

The key to this is to maintain the same relative distance to the cue ball that is established by your back hand. Simply put, the further you hold the cue back the further you stand from the cue ball.....I put my back hand on my hip so I can actually measure this if needed.

Where you hold your back hand must have a direct relationship to your bridge length or it forces you to change your normal upper body angles in your shoulders and arms.

This is not recommended and if you need more explanation I'll be glad to share with you how this is specifically done in your pre shot routine. email me if you need further assistance at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com
 
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groundhog104 said:
I watch Touretti play on the regular. He has came a long way in the few years I have watched him play he just needs to get with the little brunette that hung out with him for months in the poolroom and she would get his stroke in order.
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I love groundhog he's a smart @$$ but good dude.

And I believe I do compensate in that manner...still no video but I will try to get on it. Maybe g-hog has one...if not, I'll borrow the old timers Ipad that frequents.
 
touretti said:
I love groundhog he's a smart @$$ but good dude.

And I believe I do compensate in that manner...still no video but I will try to get on it. Maybe g-hog has one...if not, I'll borrow the old timers Ipad that frequents.
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Your friend may be a "good dude," but he's got no class.
 
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