Does tip size affect english?

[pinoyincalgary]

Hi,
I know that there has been discussions about tip shape and it's affect on english, but, does the size of the tip also contribute to the amount of spin placed on the cueball? My friend said that he noticed that he was getting more spin with a smaller tip diameter (he still has the same tip brand/shape, etc.). Thanx for the help.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Small tip diameter leading to more English is commonly agreed upon.

It's not always an advantage however, as putting unintentional side on some shots, especially long straight shots can cause the object ball to throw offline and miss.

 

[CaptainJR]

Assuming your really talking about the diameter of the shaft, since the diameter of the tip is determined by this. Yes, the thinner the shaft the more spin you get.

JR

 

[Colin Colenso]

CaptainJR wrote:
Assuming your really talking about the diameter of the shaft, since the diameter of the tip is determined by this. Yes, the thinner the shaft the more spin you get.

Interestingly, some top snooker pros use overhanging tips which are wider than the shaft. One of the reasons they do this is to reduce unintentional side on the cue ball.

 

[drivermaker]

but, does the size of the tip also contribute to the amount of spin placed on the cueball?

Yep...it sure does. No if's, and's, or but's. That's why Allison Fisher uses a 13 mm tip, she doesn't want extra unwanted spin. And she was weaned on a tiny Snooker tip.

 

[Bluewolf]

Yep...it sure does. No if's, and's, or but's. That's why Allison Fisher uses a 13 mm tip, she doesn't want extra unwanted spin. And she was weaned on a tiny Snooker tip.

I think that there must be a trade off. My husband likes to use a lot of english, so uses 12.5. I do not use a lot of english so 13 is fine with me.

On the downside, I have heard that a person is more likely to put unintentional english on the smaller tip, resulting occasionally in less accuracy, especially on those long shots.

Laura

 

[drivermaker]

On the downside, I have heard that a person is more likely to put unintentional english on the smaller tip, resulting occasionally in less accuracy, especially on those long shots.
Laura

That is true. But can you tell me what the downside to a 13mm tip is? I can't think of any. And if anyone says that they can't apply enough english to the CB, they need to work on their stroke because you can flat out zing it if you want. I have a 12mm tip on one of my shafts and I pick it up just for laughs every once in a while, especially when I'm in deadstroke and can't miss. I have no idea where the CB or OB is going most of the time, with or without english and it's like going from deadstroke to deadjoke.

 

[Bluewolf]

That is true. But can you tell me what the downside to a 13mm tip is? I can't think of any. And if anyone says that they can't apply enough english to the CB, they need to work on their stroke because you can flat out zing it if you want. I have a 12mm tip on one of my shafts and I pick it up just for laughs every once in a while, especially when I'm in deadstroke and can't miss. I have no idea where the CB or OB is going most of the time, with or without english and it's like going from deadstroke to deadjoke.

I did notice a differerence in going from 12.5 to 13.0. After I made the adjustment, well I can english a 13, just fine,just do not like to use it if not needed. I think that the fact that I see the true center of the cb also is a benefit. If a person also has a good, straight stroke, that imo means at least they have a good foundation.

However, there are those players who put unintentional english on the cb, because they do not see the dead center. They are for instance seeing what they think is dead center when it is in fact 1/4 tip to the right or to the left. When you add in deflection or swerve, that can really mess a person up. Some of them compensate by using english rather than training their eyes and/or stroke to be more perfect. I think that for these players, it may be one reason they prefer the smaller tip size. just speculating....

Laura

 

[sjm]

That is true. But can you tell me what the downside to a 13mm tip is? I can't think of any. And if anyone says that they can't apply enough english to the CB, they need to work on their stroke because you can flat out zing it if you want. I have a 12mm tip on one of my shafts and I pick it up just for laughs every once in a while, especially when I'm in deadstroke and can't miss. I have no idea where the CB or OB is going most of the time, with or without english and it's like going from deadstroke to deadjoke.

Point well taken. For some players, there may be no disadvantage at all in using a 13mm.

Speaking for myself, though, I play with a 12mm. On shots played with english, therefore, my aim is closer to the center of the cue ball than it would be if I used a 13mm. I find this makes aiming a little easier and I find I can visualize the shot a little better as my aim is more comparable to that applicable to center ball.

The aiming difference betwee 12mm and 13mm is significant, so I'm not surprised you are unable to switch to a 12mm with out a signifcant loss of accuracy. There's little doubt in my mind that you could master it, but why bother? As long as you have a tip size you're comfortable with, stick with it.

 

[drivermaker]

Speaking for myself, though, I play with a 12mm. On shots played with english, therefore, my aim is closer to the center of the cue ball than it would be if I used a 13mm. I find this makes aiming a little easier and I find I can visualize the shot a little better as my aim is more comparable to that applicable to center ball.

I never understood this theory. It's not like you're using a battering ram that's blocking your vision when you have a 13mm tip on the cue. The center of that tip is still where ever it needs to be on the CB. Besides, I don't necessarily use my tip to aim. I use edges of the CB to edges of the OB or sectors and the tip isn't part of my focus at all for aiming purposes, only minimal offset for english if necessary and it doesn't have to be that exact as long as I know that it's slightly off center. CB speed and angles will get me to where I want to go more consistently and with more accuracy than extra spin. As I recall, you were in the golf business. To me a 12mm tip is like using a small faced blade. When you're swinging in the groove and puring it, it's great. When you're swing is just a little off and you're not catching it on the center, it's very unforgiving and the the ball is all over the place. Since none of us are top 25 pro's with perfectly grooved strokes, I'll take the forgiveness of a 13mm every time.

 

[bill190]

I was experimenting with draw recently and noticed that I got the best draw with an 11mm shaft, dime shape, and soft tip. I also got more English than with a 13mm nickel medium tip.

It was sort of like the 13mm was a big truck with un-responsive slow steering whereas the 11mm was a precision sports car which could do all sorts of manuevers. I guess because the tip/shaft is smaller, it seems like there are more positions you can use for English when aiming at the cue ball. And for draw, it seems that with a smaller tip, you can aim lower. (May be my imagination?)

The down side to the 11mm shaft and soft tip was that long hard shots would sort of fizzle out. Could not get any power or speed out of a shot.

And the down side to the 13mm tip was that I could not get a dime radius (better draw) on it as the curve would go down to the ferrule.

So I settled on a 12.5mm shaft with a Moori III M dime shaped tip. Now I get better draw, but can also hit hard long shots with speed and power. (By better draw, I mean I can more predictably draw back the cue ball a specific distance; 1/4 diamond, 1/2 diamond, 1 diamond, 4 diamonds, etc.)

I got a lot of ribbing from some of the guys by switching from a 13 mm to a 12.5mm shaft. You can imagine the comments. I got back at them by pointing out that they were 1/2 mm off on each shot I saw them miss. They were not laughing when I won 1st in a tournament the other night. One of the key shots I needed was a draw shot - only draw shot I needed that evening, but I got the cue ball back *exactly* where I needed it.

Note that some players shape their tips by "eyeballing it" with sandpaper. I've noticed the biggest difference in English is with different shaped tips. Try a quarter shape, then a nickel shape, then a dime shape. Therefore I think it is *very* important to keep an exact shape on my tip using a tool which will give it an exact shape. (Not "eyeballing" it with sand paper....)

 

[sjm]

I was experimenting with draw recently and noticed that I got the best draw with an 11mm shaft, dime shape, and soft tip. I also got more English than with a 13mm nickel medium tip.

What is meant by dime and nickel in these contexts?

 

[Bluewolf]

What is meant by dime and nickel in these contexts?

Oh just get a willard shaper. You can get dime shape ones and nickel shape ones. They are inexpensive and work.
laura

 

[CaptainJR]

What is meant by dime and nickel in these contexts?

Dime and nickel is referring to the extended diameter of the curve on the tip. When you buy a tip shaper, you need to specify what shape you want your tip to be, smaller (dime), bigger (nickel). When you get the shaper you can check this. If you've bought a nickel shaper, a dime will roll back and forth in it, but a nickel will fit just right. If you've bought a dime shaper, the dime will fit just right but a nickel will not fit in it at all.

I use 13mm with a nickel tip. I've just never had any trouble getting all the spin I've needed. This thread has made me kind of curious about the significance and difference between tip shape and shaft size. Like if you had two identical 13mm shafts with nickel shaped tips and took one of them down to 12mm (keeping the nickel shape) and just changed the tip shape on the other one to a dime. I've tried 12mm shafts but I've always been afraid of a dime shaped tip. I can just see the Q-ball flying off the table when I try a 4 or 5 diamond draw shot.

JR

 

[Frank_Glenn]

Hi,
I know that there has been discussions about tip shape and it's affect on english, but, does the size of the tip also contribute to the amount of spin placed on the cueball? My friend said that he noticed that he was getting more spin with a smaller tip diameter (he still has the same tip brand/shape, etc.). Thanx for the help.

Not directly. Size may dictate "where" on the cueball you can hit. A 14mm tip will be 7MM offset for 1/2 a tip. A 12mm tip will be 6MM offset for 1/2 a tip. With a 10MM tip you may get 3 tips of offset. You can't do that with a 14MM tip (or even a 12). But hitting 9MM offset with any of them will give the same spin if the same force is applied and the tip doesn't slip (no miscue). All this assumes the same curvature (nickel or Dime) on all the tips. YMMV

 

[CaptainJR]

Not directly. Size may dictate "where" on the cueball you can hit. A 14mm tip will be 7MM offset for 1/2 a tip. A 12mm tip will be 6MM offset for 1/2 a tip. With a 10MM tip you may get 3 tips of offset. You can't do that with a 14MM tip (or even a 12). But hitting 9MM offset with any of them will give the same spin if the same force is applied and the tip doesn't slip (no miscue). All this assumes the same curvature (nickel or Dime) on all the tips. YMMV

I disagree with you on this Glen. I think you have it backwards (or maybe I'm just not reading it correctly)

Your saying that size would dictate how much off center you can hit the Q-ball? I think tip shape would determine this more so than size. What gives you more spin with a thinner shaft is it's flexibility, not it's ability to hit the Q-ball more off center.

That is why I ask the question in reply #14. But I think I'll try to make the question clearer here.

Original Question in reply #14- "This thread has made me kind of curious about the significance and difference between tip shape and shaft size. Like if you had two identical 13mm shafts with nickel shaped tips and took one of them down to 12mm (keeping the nickel shape) and just changed the tip shape on the other one to a dime. I've tried 12mm shafts but I've always been afraid of a dime shaped tip. I can just see the Q-ball flying off the table when I try a 4 or 5 diamond draw shot."

What I'm trying to get to here is.
If I'm correct that, a smaller diameter shaft gives more spin because of it's flexibility, and a smaller tip size (dime) gives more spin because you can hit the Q-ball more off center, than which would be better and why? It seems obvious to me that the smaller diameter shaft should be better because, who wants to hit the Q-ball more off center than they have to.
Any other thoughts?

JR

 

[Frank_Glenn]

What I'm trying to get to here is.
If I'm correct that, a smaller diameter shaft gives more spin because of it's flexibility, and a smaller tip size (dime) gives more spin because you can hit the Q-ball more off center, than which would be better and why? It seems obvious to me that the smaller diameter shaft should be better because, who wants to hit the Q-ball more off center than they have to.
Any other thoughts?

JR

I can get more spin with a dime shape. I never said anything about shape in my reply except that for all instances it was the same (either a nickel for all or a dime for all). I was talking about size to mean diameter. You can't compare a dime to a nickel with different diameters. It's apples to oranges, IMO. One is not better than the other, IMO. Just different. I took your question to mean "what is the better tip for getting maximum english". Sorry if that was not what you meant.